T/O Mins. Quest.

W

wzgrza

Well-Known Member
T/O Mins. Quest. + TDZ quest.

Hey guys, I was just looking over a gouge and one of the things that someone posted came up on the written was "Takeoff mins for category B".

Is there such a thing as take-off mins for a Cat. aircraft?? I thought those were aircraft approach categories? I know for T/O mins. Unless otherwise posted is 1 mile for 1 or 2 engines and 1/2 mile for more then 2 engines. Unless they are non-standard take-off minimums, which would be posted in the DP or Approach plate yes? So what is meant by "Takeoff mins for category B"?? Since there are no speed, and maybe some climbgradiant that must be met for non-standard T/O mins.

Thanks.
 
Also, instead of making a new thread I figured I would post this here.

TDZ Lights extend to 3,000ft down the runway from the threshold.

But what about Touch Down Zone markings?? Do they also extend down 3,000 feet? The AIM just says that they are apart in 500ft increments and that if both sides of the runway have TDZ markings, those that extend to within 900ft of the midpoint between the thresholds are eliminated. But it says nothing as to how far down they extend. I assume it is 3,000ft just like the TDZ Lights. ?
 
Re: T/O Mins. Quest. + TDZ quest.

stoki said:
Hey guys, I was just looking over a gouge and one of the things that someone posted came up on the written was "Takeoff mins for category B".

Is there such a thing as take-off mins for a Cat. aircraft?? I thought those were aircraft approach categories? I know for T/O mins. Unless otherwise posted is 1 mile for 1 or 2 engines and 1/2 mile for more then 2 engines. Unless they are non-standard take-off minimums, which would be posted in the DP or Approach plate yes? So what is meant by "Takeoff mins for category B"?? Since there are no speed, and maybe some climbgradiant that must be met for non-standard T/O mins.

Thanks.
Click to expand...


OGDEN, UT
OGDEN-HINCKLEY
TAKE-OFF MINIMUMS: Rwy 7, NA. Rwy 3, CAT A,B
300-1 or std. with a min climb of 425' per NM to 4800.
CAT C,D 3600-3. Rwy 16, 300-1½ or std. with a min.
climb of 260' per NM to 4800.
DEPARTURE PROCEDURE: Rwys 3,34, turn left.
Rwys 16,21,25, turn right. All aircraft climb direct OGD
VORTAC. Aircraft departing OGD R-150 CW R-225
climb on course. All others climb in holding pattern (W,
right turns, 101° inbound) to depart OGD VORTAC at or
above: R-226 CW R-310, 6000; R-311 CW R-335, 6800;
R-336 CW R-149, 10700. Continue on course to MEA
or assigned altitude.
 
Thanks for replies and link.

I havent seen that before concerning the T/O mins... or I just don't remember. So I guess that as to picking the Cat. your aircraft is, it is the same as for the appraoch. For example Cat. A is up to 90kts, then Cat B is up to 120kts etc. etc.

Also, I assume it will be listed what the T/O mins are for the particular Category you are on the plate? Not like a Cat B has some standard in itself?.. since they are NON-standard T/O mins, so you need the plate to read and see what is listed for your particular Category. Stupid question, I know, but I'm just triple checking.
 
stoki said:
Also, I assume it will be listed what the T/O mins are for the particular Category you are on the plate? Not like a Cat B has some standard in itself?.. since they are NON-standard T/O mins, so you need the plate to read and see what is listed for your particular Category. Stupid question, I know, but I'm just triple checking.
Click to expand...

I don't understand what you're asking in that paragraph. The approach categories deal with turning radii, so it's reasonable that it would apply in some takeoff situations in avoiding obstacles.
 
I guess what I am basically saying is that if the T/O mins are different for the different Categories, then it will always be listed what the T/O mins for each Category are for that specific scenario, correct? I guess I kind of answered my own question in the last post, since any T/O minimums that are non-standard, it is listed what they actually are, for that particular runway in the publication. :)
 
Thunderstorm question

Here is another question I can't find the answer to.

What type of WX to expect when updrafts go into the stratosphere during a thunderstorm.

If the updrafts are punching through into the stratospehre, which is rare, it must be a strong storm with some serious updrafts. Other then the possibility of large hail, heavier rain, higher winds, or stronger downdrafts during the dissipating stage, what else can there be? I looked online, but can't find much on the topic.. so this is me just taking a shot.

Or is the answer simply severe thunderstorm? :)


damn, I thought I could edit the thread title.. o well.
 
Re: Thunderstorm question

stoki said:
Here is another question I can't find the answer to.

What type of WX to expect when updrafts go into the stratosphere during a thunderstorm.

If the updrafts are punching through into the stratospehre, which is rare, it must be a strong storm with some serious updrafts. Other then the possibility of large hail, heavier rain, higher winds, or stronger downdrafts during the dissipating stage, what else can there be? I looked online, but can't find much on the topic.. so this is me just taking a shot.

Or is the answer simply severe thunderstorm? :)


damn, I thought I could edit the thread title.. o well.
Click to expand...


When you see anvil clouds above 40,000 feet it is likely that they have bumped up against the bottom of the stratosphere. These monster storms are much more likely to reach out and thump you if you get near them as their energy near the top of the storm is being pushed horizontally by the floor of the stratosphere. I was once hit by such a storm heading to South America and just about diverted it was so bad. A typical 35,000 foot thunderstorm will roll it's energy over the top or dissipate as the lifting action peters out. Their outward reach is significantly less than these 45,000 foot storms you talk about.
 
Thanks for the reply, I couldn't find info like that anywhere. So in that situation would you want to circle the storm more on the downwind side (the side the anvil head is drifting off to) then the other side of it? Or just all around it in general? Just wondering this part for my own info.

hehe SoCal, im applying at PDT so not quite NASA. :D



Also, I keep seeing Turbo-prop holding speeds comming up in some of the gouges. What is that? Is there such a thing as a turbo-prop holding speed? I can't find any such thing anywhere. From what I can tell it all depends on your altitude, regardless of what is powering you. Is that true? Or is there such a thing as a turbo-prop holding speed, or some speed limitations to turbo-props period??


And when to step up with a step up fix = either begin a climb at the fix and if you can maintain at least a 200fpnm gradiant then you should be OK, unless there is a MCA, which then you need to be at that altitude before you cross the fix correct? I'm just triple checking myself here I really don't wanna mess this up. Thanks guys, ill prob. have some more. :panic:
 
stoki said:
And when to step up with a step up fix = either begin a climb at the fix and if you can maintain at least a 200fpnm gradiant then you should be OK, unless there is a MCA, which then you need to be at that altitude before you cross the fix correct? I'm just triple checking myself here I really don't wanna mess this up. Thanks guys, ill prob. have some more. :panic:
Click to expand...
For a normal change in MEA you can begin climbing at the fix. A MCA is exactly what the name implies.
 
stoki said:
So in that situation would you want to circle the storm more on the downwind side (the side the anvil head is drifting off to) then the other side of it? Or just all around it in general? Just wondering this part for my own info.
Click to expand...



Definitely pass the storm on the side opposite (upwind) of the anvil. Big storms should be avoided by at least five miles, and possibly more. I once flew between two massive towering cumulus cells missing each by at least five miles and was struck by cloud to cloud lightning. The bang was extremely loud and, it shattered my porcelain mug full of coffee and made a big mess. Suffice to say my night vision was shot as well.


Any opportunity to avoid getting anywhere near these big storms should be taken.
 
Wow that must have been intense, and an amazing view.

I love weather. Storms are crazy. I read recently that a typical TS carries 2.3billion pounds of moisture, and that it would take the niagra falls 6 minutes to fill up the amount of water/moisture in the TS.
 
stoki said:
Wow that must have been intense, and an amazing view.

I love weather. Storms are crazy. I read recently that a typical TS carries 2.3billion pounds of moisture, and that it would take the niagra falls 6 minutes to fill up the amount of water/moisture in the TS.
Click to expand...


Mother nature is almost as wild and crazy as the Cougars. :crazy:
 
stoki said:
Also, I keep seeing Turbo-prop holding speeds comming up in some of the gouges. What is that? Is there such a thing as a turbo-prop holding speed? I can't find any such thing anywhere. From what I can tell it all depends on your altitude, regardless of what is powering you. Is that true? Or is there such a thing as a turbo-prop holding speed, or some speed limitations to turbo-props period??
Click to expand...

The AIM doesn't show any different holding speeds for any types of aircraft. It is all about the location of the aircraft. Check AIM 5-3-7 for the speeds.
 
stoki said:
Also, I keep seeing Turbo-prop holding speeds comming up in some of the gouges.
Click to expand...

Propeller airplanes used to have a holding speed of 175 knots, but that went away probably 8 years ago. I'm not sure why they were different.
 
calcapt said:
Definitely pass the storm on the side opposite (upwind) of the anvil. Big storms should be avoided by at least five miles, and possibly more. I once flew between two massive towering cumulus cells missing each by at least five miles and was struck by cloud to cloud lightning. The bang was extremely loud and, it shattered my porcelain mug full of coffee and made a big mess. Suffice to say my night vision was shot as well.


Any opportunity to avoid getting anywhere near these big storms should be taken.
Click to expand...

Christ, you're like the airborne Chuck Norris.

Is there any crap up there you haven't had to deal with? I mean this in all seriousness and with a healthy dose of respect. You've posted about stuff that I haven't even dreamed of dealing with yet.
 
killbilly said:
Christ, you're like the airborne Chuck Norris.

Is there any crap up there you haven't had to deal with? I mean this in all seriousness and with a healthy dose of respect. You've posted about stuff that I haven't even dreamed of dealing with yet.
Click to expand...


And all this time I have been thinking that my flying career has been pretty routine. If my flying adventures are really that exciting here, you guys are really boring.

I guess after flying for 30 years you see a little bit of everything.
 
tgrayson said:
Propeller airplanes used to have a holding speed of 175 knots, but that went away probably 8 years ago. I'm not sure why they were different.
Click to expand...

On one of the gouges it mentions it 2 times. Once as "turbo-prop holding speeds" and the 2nd as "turbo-prop speed limits" so I assume its probably the same thing. One of my friends who took the test swears that it was on there, but I can't find one single thing on it. Some of the airline guys I have talked to who in the past have flown TPs havent heard anything about it. Perhaps they mean in Canada, since they use a turbo-prop holding speed there, which I believe is 175knots.. but at the same time I guess that rule would not apply here since it is a U.S registered aircraft? I have no idea

oo, and there is also one "IFR turbo-prop fuel requirements" ????
 
Yea, things in aviation do take long to change.

I just heard from someone that they ask that question as a trick question, and that like we all read in the AIM, it all depends on your altitude.

Heres another quick one. A TAF comes out 4 times a day, every 6 hours, and is valid for 24 hours. A METAR comes out every-hour, unless there is some sort of special weather or a significant change in weather, then it comes out anytime-as a SPECI(which has its own criteria). How long is it valid for, a SPECI is valid for up to 2 hours. In that case I assume a METAR is valid only for that 1 hour till a new one comes out, yes? That only seems to make sense.

:)
 
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