Different Route with C150/152?

M

mcescher

New Member
Hello all,

I have a question for the seasoned guys. Please be informed, I do not have any flying hours...

Here is the question:

My intention is to get PPL, IFR, CPL, (and perhaps CFI+I) first, and ME rating for a regional airlines later. Now... If I purchase a crappy C150/152 (IFR certified ~20-23K) and fly the crap out of it, would it be cheaper than renting?

I am not including instructor rates to the math, since I have to pay it in either way.

In my area, I found an FBO with 68$/hour wet for C150, and 30$ for the instruction.

Thanks in advance guys... I am so happy to be here.

mc
 
A lot of people go this route.

You'll want to find a nice solid airplane with low engine hours and it can be cheaper in the end especially when time building. Some things will have to be done in a complex aircraft for commercial and CFI so you'll have to either find one to rent or if you are up for it upgrade aircraft after getting the private and instrument ratings.
 
Cessnaflyer said:
A lot of people go this route.

You'll want to find a nice solid airplane with low engine hours and it can be cheaper in the end especially when time building. Some things will have to be done in a complex aircraft for commercial and CFI so you'll have to either find one to rent or if you are up for it upgrade aircraft after getting the private and instrument ratings.
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Short answer: yes, it will be cheaper.

My 150 costs me about $50/hr to fly without an instructor. That being said, she recently went down for major which cost me $15k. Even with that, when I sell her I'll basically have gotten all my ratings for free. You will incur unforeseen expenses but it will be worth it in the long run. One of the greatest days of my life was when I put the keys to my airplane on my key ring.
 
Well thats a bit of a loaded question. kinda like asking what regional will have the fastest up grades in two years!
In a nut shell. Fuel, whats it cost near you? say $4. at 6gph your looking at $24 per hour. Oil $6 per quart, no filter on the 150 so an oil change every 25 hours @ $1.40 per hour (thats with you doing the oil change) Insurance around $500 per year? if you fly about 25 hrs per month thats @ $1.60 hour (then again, you need insurance even if you rent!) an annual will cost you about $800 (again with you helping, and hope and pray there are no repairs needed) $2.66 and hour again with 25hrs a month average.
Tie down here in my area $50-200 per month so min $2 per hour min.
this of course does not take into account any repairs that might pop up. The last time I worked on the mooney it ended up being a $400 day! and it was only small stuff!
then you have to find an indipendant CFI, many flight schools will not let their cfi work freelance on the side.
On the other side of the fence though, if you rent, you are competing with every one else for that cheap $68 150. last week i had a x-c scheduled in a rental, got there to find that last guy had damaged it.
if you have the money and can afford to keep the plane maintained. I would buy another in a heart beat. but if you cannot drop $1000 tomorrow for a repair, you might want to rent!
There is no easy answer here, just know going in its not easy. Im sure i made this as clear as mud, good luck!:nana2:
 
mooneyguy said:
but if you cannot drop $1000 tomorrow for a repair, you might want to rent!
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:yeahthat:

That might just be the single best piece of advice you'll get about owning a plane. As the former owner of 2 airplanes, I second that idea. You don't want to be airplane rich and cash poor. Especially if you are airplane rich with "a crappy C150/152."

In addition to the expenses mooneyguy stated, don't forget about overhauls and repairs. How much is it to overhaul an O-235? For the sake of argument let's call it $20K for the whole event. Now, how many hours do you have until you reach TBO? (Remember, Lycoming says the TBO is 2000 hrs or 12 yrs, whichever comes first. Engines will normally make it past the year mark, but unless they fly hundreds of hours per year they will fall short of the hour mark.) Let's say you find a plane with 700 hrs SMOH. If the engine makes it to the 2000 TBO, then you have 1300 hrs left. So in this case you'll　have to budget $1.54/hr for a new engine. If there is less time remaining or the overhaul will cost more, then you have to bump up these numbers. The same thing applies to paint, interior & avionics. You may decide you will not own the airplane long enough to have to worry about any of these events, but every hour you fly the plane you are wearing it out at these figures, so it's important to know what they are.

How much should you budget for repairs? It depends on how crappy of a "crappy C150/152" you buy. You certainly don't want a hangar queen. I flew my plane about 100 hrs a year, and it would normally only visit the maintenance shop once a year outside of the annual. In the annual it was normal to find $600-800 woth of minor things. (The base price for the annual was about $750, and I would budget $1500 for the event. Some years it was less, and some more, but I don't think I ever had an annual over $2K.) If the other trip to the shop cost me $200, then I'd have about $900/yr in maintenance costs. (I did my own oil changes.) $900 / 100 hrs = $9/hr for maintenance (repairs) and $7.50/hr for the annual. (BTW, in the month before I sold my plane I had 3 repairs for a total of $3500. Yikes!)

When I began taking lessons in my Grumman, I had to list my CFI by name on my insurance. My policy let me name 3 pilots for no additional charge, so that was easy. Finding a freelance CFI was a little more difficult.
 
I owned a 152 for a little over 2 years. It was VFR when I bought it, I put in a new radio, ILS, and marker beacons and got my IFR rating in it. Put about 250 hours on it.

I learned a lot from owning an aircraft, even though it was a short period of time. The unforseen expenses can be substantial. Over the time I had the 152, I had to top two cylinders. I had warranty coverage on one of the jugs, but I still needed to pay the mechanic to pull it, of course. Things get expensive fast at $65 per labor hour. :panic:

If you can rent a 152 for $68 wet, I would recommend that route.

There is an old saying that the two happiest days of an aircraft owner's life is the day he buys his plane and the day he sells it.
 
I answered your PM so if you give me your # I will call you. For what it is worth don't buy a "crappy" anything. If you are super tight on money don't buy. Renting is more predictable(You can know exactly how much your training will cost which is impossible if you own). If you have a little extra cash, it will likely make sense to own at the end of the day for a variety of reasons. If you are looking at flying 250-500 hours in a short period of time you may want to reconsider a 150. I have been flying about 100hrs a month mostly cross country. Flying an 8 or 10 hour cross-country in a 152 would make for a very long day. If you are going to take a while to get your tickets(keeping a day job type route), in my opinion they are fun to fly on shorter trips. JOE
 
As someone who has owned fifteen different airplanes,I am definetly a proponent for ownership.But,if you can rent one for $68 wet,I think that might be the most cost effective way to go.Especially,as someone else made the point about dropping a thousand or two unexpededly.Good luck with your decision.
 
I've owned about 8 different 150/152's and I highly recommend it. Buy one and then sell a share to someone with similar interests. Old airplanes hold their value well, so you'll be able to sell it for what you pay for it. If you put money into improvements, only expect to increase the value by half. Annuals and normal maintanence don't increase value. Burn car gas instead of 100LL.
 
DE727UPS said:
I've owned about 8 different 150/152's and I highly recommend it. Buy one and then sell a share to someone with similar interests. Old airplanes hold their value well, so you'll be able to sell it for what you pay for it. If you put money into improvements, only expect to increase the value by half. Annuals and normal maintanence don't increase value. Burn car gas instead of 100LL.
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Does burning Mogas (with an approved conversion, obviously) have an affect on engine longevity?
 
Not in my experience. The STC was approved by the FAA after extensive testing. Mogas STC's have been around for over 20 years. I think someone would have said something by now if it was a problem. Anyhow, I've never had any problems outside getting chased off KBFI and KRNT by the airport managers.

I showed them.

I moved to Spokane.....
 
Thank you very much for the replies.
I know a friend who works for a major airline. He owns his airplane. I will talk to him about this idea and get his ideas. Even though he has a military background, I am sure he can help me out with this.
I will let you know.
Thanks again...
 
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