Making right traffic

Thank you everyone for all the feedback. It looks like I really screwed up on this one! I will definitely have a talk with my student about what we should have done in this instance.

Thanks again,
- Jeff
 
Jeffro said:
Thank you everyone for all the feedback. It looks like I really screwed up on this one! I will definitely have a talk with my student about what we should have done in this instance.

Thanks again,
- Jeff
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Okay, maybe you screwed up a little, but that's not as important as what you did afterwards.

The fact that you recognized it, asked the question, got some good advice, learned from it and are willing to pass that along to your student is huge. Doing that goes a long way toward earning his respect.

Making mistakes and learning from them is part of instructing, that's why it's such a valuable experience. Lord knows I've made more than my fair share.

So, good job!

Will
 
exleardriver said:
yep. and keep in mind, folks, that your sectional is not 'current' without the accompanying current af/d. the af/d contains amendments in the back applicable to the sectional charts themselves (most often dealing with towers, etc.).
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...and you AFD is not complete without the current NOTAMS.
 
Ian J said:
Just the last time this topic surfaced, the argument was made that some airports call for right traffic in the AF/D where there were no markings on the actual airport to indicate right traffic.

It came down to the FARs being regulatory, the AF/D isn't, so do what the FARs say.
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I would still planning on flying the right traffic pattern. FAR 91.103: Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight.

Although it does not specifically mention the AFD, you can hang your hat on it. Also, most airports with right patterns have "RP" on the sectional now.
 
woutlaw said:
Okay, maybe you screwed up a little, but that's not as important as what you did afterwards.

The fact that you recognized it, asked the question, got some good advice, learned from it and are willing to pass that along to your student is huge. Doing that goes a long way toward earning his respect.

Making mistakes and learning from them is part of instructing, that's why it's such a valuable experience. Lord knows I've made more than my fair share.

So, good job!

Will
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Concur. I don't think you "really screwed this one up." You had enough concern to ask the question and get answers. This is a great training opportunity that will leave a lasting impression in a future aircraft commander.

Keep up the good work!
Rob
 
matt152 said:
I would still planning on flying the right traffic pattern. FAR 91.103: Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight.

Although it does not specifically mention the AFD, you can hang your hat on it. Also, most airports with right patterns have "RP" on the sectional now.
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I'm just reporting what was argued last time brother. I believe the sectional "RP" was brought up too. Someone argued 91.126 overrides a sectional or an AF/D if there are no visual markings or approved light signals indicating right traffic.

I'll happily tell anyone what I would do in real life over a beer, though. ;)
 
This is my first post on JetCareers after looking around for the past couple of years and here is my disclaimer " I am not nor do I ever want to fly a commercial aircraft Part 121 135 91 whatever else there is nor do I think that any of the people who fly them know what it is like in the real world sometimes and someday when you arent memorizing your 121 regs and being coddled by controllers take a look at Part 137 and you will have a new appreciation for the word VAGUE" Now that is out of the way, I have friends who fly 121 and who were instructors and to the best of my knowledge uncontrolled class Gulf Airspace as I like to put it is the Wild West. Do what you want when you want. You want to fly straight in go ahead you want to overfly the field at 500 feet go for it, No radio calls who cares its UNCONTROLLED AIRSPACE Radios are not required. Now when you guys decide to stop flying at FL390 and strap 4000 extra pounds dangerous chemical 5 feet from you and fly 8 feet off the ground avoiding power lines, windmills, tractors, silos, homes, people, animals and the inverted stall and 150 feet then you guys can whine and complain about REGS!!! I realize not much of that applies to you guys who fly at FL 390 actucally none of it maybe you have to dodge the occasional cloud OH NOOOOO tough flying.. Take off and put the Autopilot on and read your AOPA or whatever you have with you. And try to do what I talk about at night sometime and quit whining about right traffic left traffic Im glad they got those punks. They worked just as hard as you did and I imagine everyone has broken a FAR at one time or another so everyone is in just as much jeopardy as losing their certs.

Disclaimer #2 I am not a flight instructor and just because you are does not make you great or does not mean you know it all, you dont, I dont, the FAA does not, The Head Pilot at whatever disfunctional airline does not either. I dont care how many hours you have flying a RJ you cant fly a real plane safely ( and if you want to know why I am here all week )

Thank You For Reading, Criticism is appreciated and any and all complaints will be rebutted with staggering enthusiasm over my theories, you may think you are right and I am out to prove you wrong which most times will happen.
 
hi guys..i haven't logged-on in months. i was slowing down on full-time instructing to return to the investment jungle. lucky thing, as the tornado that hit little rock recently destroyed all but one aircraft i instructed folks out of regularly.

that said...hello, sidewinder. your reply to this thread showed up in my e-mail, otherwise no telling how long it'd be before i returned. at any rate, not sure i follow your reply other than i think you're suggesting that you do ag flying, which is arguably the most dangerous commercial flying available reference cost of insurance and death rates among its pilot ranks (although i believe the arrival of the turbine-engine has helped mitigate that). the forum is not about whining, rather an exchange of information, whether it be procedural, operational considerations, regulatory, or recommended practices, etc. most here aspire to do the best they can at what they do and a more embedded knowledge of the above all help. i don't believe the original poster was whining, nor anyone else. many of us have our own 'horror stories' or ad nauseum tales of things, which happened while flying that perhaps needn't have. we may all often learn from those postings. do you have such a story? :bandit:
 
BobDDuck said:
Let me preface this by saying I am ALL about teaching a student by the book and the legal way of doing something.

That said, I had an interesting conversation with the captain I am flying with this month. In the RJ, we often will make right traffic at controlled fields. Granted that is complying with tower's requests so we are covered, but it really is a 50-50 split.

Also, I always drilled into my students to fly a rectangular pattern. Downwind to base and base to final. Nice square turns. Again, in the jet it is VERY rare to fly a 90 degree turn on a visual approach. Normally, from the downwind it is a sweeping turn that joins the final just far enough out to get stabilized for the approach.

Just something interesting.

And yeah, I would just fly the pattern below the clouds in left traffic, as long as it is safe to do so.
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I was always taught to fly the square patter but at my PPL checkride the guy said something along the lines of "you don't have to square it up, turn to final now and cut the corner"
 
PGT said:
I was always taught to fly the square patter but at my PPL checkride the guy said something along the lines of "you don't have to square it up, turn to final down and cut the corner"
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don't really like his attitude. one of my hallmarks i used when evaluating a pilot, whether when as a basic flight instructor or as a check airman was whether the pilot showed the discipline to correct for wind, fly a square pattern..something you're taught during the first phase of private pilot training in the ground reference maneuvers. lack of this demonstrates to me either 'rust' or lazy airmanship. :bandit:
 
i should have added that in my experience, examiners often interject their 'opinion', which doesn't always jive with faa 'opinion'. in the mid-90's i had an examiner ask me after a student's instrument checkride how i 'teach ndb approaches'. his argument was that in the 'real world', one 'homes' to an ndb then does tracking from there. i can't argue that in my years of part 135 flying that this was indeed often the case, depending upon fatigue factors, etc. but the point is, as an instructor, we're not trained to teach homing to an ndb. the examiner agreed with me privately, chuckling, 'oh, go shuck that instrument flying handbook..you'll see what i mean someday..'
 
sidewinder said:
This is my first post on JetCareers after looking around for the past couple of years and here is my disclaimer " I am not nor do I ever want to fly a commercial aircraft Part 121 135 91 whatever else there is nor do I think that any of the people who fly them know what it is like in the real world sometimes and someday when you arent memorizing your 121 regs and being coddled by controllers take a look at Part 137 and you will have a new appreciation for the word VAGUE" Now that is out of the way, I have friends who fly 121 and who were instructors and to the best of my knowledge uncontrolled class Gulf Airspace as I like to put it is the Wild West. Do what you want when you want. You want to fly straight in go ahead you want to overfly the field at 500 feet go for it, No radio calls who cares its UNCONTROLLED AIRSPACE Radios are not required. Now when you guys decide to stop flying at FL390 and strap 4000 extra pounds dangerous chemical 5 feet from you and fly 8 feet off the ground avoiding power lines, windmills, tractors, silos, homes, people, animals and the inverted stall and 150 feet then you guys can whine and complain about REGS!!! I realize not much of that applies to you guys who fly at FL 390 actucally none of it maybe you have to dodge the occasional cloud OH NOOOOO tough flying.. Take off and put the Autopilot on and read your AOPA or whatever you have with you. And try to do what I talk about at night sometime and quit whining about right traffic left traffic Im glad they got those punks. They worked just as hard as you did and I imagine everyone has broken a FAR at one time or another so everyone is in just as much jeopardy as losing their certs.

Disclaimer #2 I am not a flight instructor and just because you are does not make you great or does not mean you know it all, you dont, I dont, the FAA does not, The Head Pilot at whatever disfunctional airline does not either. I dont care how many hours you have flying a RJ you cant fly a real plane safely ( and if you want to know why I am here all week )

Thank You For Reading, Criticism is appreciated and any and all complaints will be rebutted with staggering enthusiasm over my theories, you may think you are right and I am out to prove you wrong which most times will happen.
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1st, Welcome To JetCareers!

2nd, when you get a chance, stop by and browse this section:

http://forums.jetcareers.com/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_rules

It will go a long way in helping one find their way around the forum.
 
Oh my, that IS 10,000... I figure I should have some sort of cake or something for JEP! Want me to send you something from Sprinkles man? :)
 
sidewinder said:
you may think you are right and I am out to prove you wrong which most times will happen.
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OK,...so it's Mr. "No Radio Guy", the guy that just zips into and under the pattern taking advantage of the No-Rules-It's-Uncontrolled-Airspace rule, which only works if everyone polices ourself. We, you & me, we make up the pattern, and that means nobody can just bomb in where ever and when ever that want.

Welcome, Mr. SideWinder. Always wanted to strike up a conversation with one o' you Devil-May-Care Ag pilot freaks who stay high on ag spray which is obviously you. I can't seem to get a word in on the radio. You're already on the runway before I even know you're around. I can tell from your posting that you're a superior pilot who does not have to fly in the pattern with the rest of us duddards. Heck, we can't get lined up if we don't do a 'regular pattern'.

Am I wrong?
 
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