F/E vs. CFI Route

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Scuba

Scuba

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I've been a reader on these forums for almost 2 years now, but finally created a username and am a couple months away from committing to my Pilot career. I know these two questions have been asked before, but would like a little clarification.

I was coached last week by a former United Pilot that basically wrote a plan out for me that would get me in the air as a pilot, my life long dream, just like all of you.

BASIC PLAN LAYOUT:
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Go to an FBO get following ratings completed
PVT
Commercial
Instrument
Multi-Eng
and all the instructor courses

She said it would run me close to $25,000 if I price shopped.

Then once I had that done I could go to Aero-Services in Miami, pay $10,000 for training on a 727 to be a flight engineer, and that would basically within time upgrade me to a first officer position within time, and then to captain.

She also ran her husband through the same program and now he flies for UPS.

I've read some of what DEUPS has had to say on the Flight Engineer route, but I'm so confused on which is best, between that route or going the sometimes slow method of flight instructor.

Thanks so much
Mostly

P.S. A little about me.

I've want to fly since I was a child. My mother is from Portugal so I've had tons of time as a passenger in large jets and it has always been my passion. I'm currently ready to drop a good paying job and lots of stability to follow my dream and not play the "what if" game(I know this is what I want to do).

I'm mainly scared about the Loans though. It freaks me out!! FBO with little multi-engine for 25 to 30k or just get it done, BOOM for 65k with ATP.
 
Where are you going to work as an FE? I mean, as an entry level position?

I think it would be better for you to skip the FE position - if possible..
 
out of curiously

why would you get all the inst ratings if you're going to become a FE?

get your ratings, fly as MEI, and get on with a regional and there you are... your life long dream

can FEs even log flight time? TIC? lol
 
As far as I've read per FAA guidelines one may count 1/3 hours as 2nd Officer not to exceed 500 hours towards ATP Certification.
 
Do not, I repeate, do not pay some company 10,000 dollars to be a flight engineer on a 727. That would be a total waste of money and a huge mistake on your part IMHO. This "united pilot" is giving you some bad advice, even if it is well intentioned.

CFI, banner tow, do anything but pay people money for a job in an airline cockpit. If you're worried about money that would be 10k you just flushed. It is not hard to get a regoinal airline job and time as a flight engineer is not going to help you much in the grand scheme of things.
 
Alchemy said:
This "united pilot" is giving you some bad advice, even if it is well intentioned.
Click to expand...

I concur.

Besides, if Aero Services rings the "recess" bell and you find yourself $10,000 in debt and without an FE job, FDX and UPS don't care. You're still a low time pilot.

I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.
 
Mostly said:
BASIC PLAN LAYOUT:
---------------------

Go to an FBO get following ratings completed
PVT
Commercial
Instrument
Multi-Eng
and all the instructor courses

She said it would run me close to $25,000 if I price shopped.
Click to expand...

25k for all of that? Maybe in year 2000 prices, but not likely today. Sounds like your coach is living in a time capsule.
 
If you happen to "find" yourself in an FE position down the road...fine. But DO NOT plan to go that route.

I have a few friends at a freight carrier who hired on as FE's...absolutely no movement in 8 years...and they are still FE's. They haven't flown for so long in a pilot's seat that they can't even find a pilot job...or would have to go to a regional...which is what they gambled on skipping in the first place.

Actually, I've seen this a couple of times now over the years with a couple of different companies.
 
Alchemy said:
Do not, I repeat, do not pay some company 10,000 dollars to be a flight engineer on a 727. That would be a total waste of money and a huge mistake on your part IMHO. This "united pilot" is giving you some bad advice, even if it is well intentioned.

CFI, banner tow, do anything but pay people money for a job in an airline cockpit. If you're worried about money that would be 10k you just flushed. It is not hard to get a regoinal airline job and time as a flight engineer is not going to help you much in the grand scheme of things.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:

I'll be the first to say that Engineer time is a great learning experience, BUT do not pay some company $10k for the privilege! Being an F/E is the same as being hired as an F/O, you interview, get hired, if you get an F/E bid then THEY pay YOU as an employee to sit in that seat.

There is no need in today's regional hiring market to pay that kind of money to sit sidesaddle on a 727. You can instruct for a little while, and easily get the hours to meet regional mins.
 
mojo6911 said:
25k for all of that? Maybe in year 2000 prices, but not likely today. Sounds like your coach is living in a time capsule.
Click to expand...


:yeahthat:

In addition to what others have said about not pay that $10,000 for the FE course, if you find a place where you can get all of those ratings for $25,000 let me know. I'll meet you there!

More realistically plan on spending around $40,000, plus or minus a few grand.
 
Mostly,

Good posts by all above. I would like to add that even if you did drop ten grand to get your FE, I would suspect that you would still find it difficult to get an FE position. First of all, there are less and less FE jobs out there as those airplanes that require FE's are being retired. Second of all, there are still plenty of former military FE's with thousands of hours of FE time getting out of the military.

I considered going the FE route at one time. I had my Comercial ASEL/AMEL, Inst, and my A&P already. I took the FE written and received a high 90's score (can't remember exactly what it was), and with two captains going to the Chief FE of a cargo company could still not get hired due to the glut of more qualified FE's with thousands of hours getting out of the service. So my point is, you could be out ten grand and still not have a job. It would be a gamble in my opinion.

Stonefly
 
I came up with $25960 at the school that I did some of my training at. That was after adding up everything and adding 10% for "this and that". That doesn't count CFI though because some people get their CFI right after their commercial with very little additional instruction and some people need more instruction.
 
falconvalley said:
I came up with $25960 at the school that I did some of my training at. That was after adding up everything and adding 10% for "this and that". That doesn't count CFI though because some people get their CFI right after their commercial with very little additional instruction and some people need more instruction.
Click to expand...

15 hours PIC for the MEI is costly.
 
mojo6911 said:
25k for all of that? Maybe in year 2000 prices, but not likely today. Sounds like your coach is living in a time capsule.
Click to expand...

I'll be finishing through MEI at a little over 25k including some random stuff like ~15hrs aerobatics, but I've caught some lucky breaks and met the right people along the way. Probably could have kept it a little lower had I done my multi engine training during the "time building" towards 250 hours for CSEL, but I didn't have the cash for it until after 6 months of instructing.

Network, wash airplanes, whatever to keep the costs down and 25k is not too unrealistic.

But don't pay 10K to sit backseat...
 
mojo6911 said:
25k for all of that? Maybe in year 2000 prices, but not likely today. Sounds like your coach is living in a time capsule.
Click to expand...

No lie...I'm spending 25k just to get my commercial (mostly spent on time building to get to 250 hours) and my CFI. I've already spent close to 15K on my ppl and IR. Throw in another 5 or 6 k for the CFII and MEI and your talking closer to 45K or 50K.
 
I've gone through all my ratings including CFI and -II for ~27k; and that includes an extra 10 hours for my PPL since I had to stop flying for 3 months. It is possible if you shop around and don't fly brand new airplanes for your PPL - get a bare-bones 152 for a PPL, it is all you need.
 
dude get that 727 FE position asap. you could get TPIC much faster then at a regional and skip them all together. However if I were you I would also work as a CFI part-time.
 
OK you get that FE position. Without your other ratings, you'll be in that seat for the rest of your career. If you want to fly, fly. If you want to be an FE, be an FE. Dont go the FE path hoping to fly. The flying path may lead you to a FE seat for a bit, and I personally would take it just for the experience of doing it. And the company would pay for your FE cert.
 
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