B767Driver
New Member
UFS...what were those things...ATP's. It took a moon landing to get on there.
Why did you leave the airlines?
- Thread starter Nihon_Ni
- Start date
skydog
New Member
A lot of others have already said what I am about to say, but the reasons I left the airline world, and flying altogther, were 1) lifestyle - got sick and tired of working every weekend and holiday, and spending several nights a week away from home in a hotel, 2) lack of predictability/stability - it just seemed that there was always some new crisis that put your job in jeopardy: recession, terrorism, company flying taken away...there was just always something, and 3) no payback - I just didn't feel that I what I was getting was worth what I was giving.
Flyimg airplanes is a great hobby, but its a lousy way to make a living.
Flyimg airplanes is a great hobby, but its a lousy way to make a living.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
msm9724:
I fly corporate now.
I fly corporate now.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
You holding a line on the ATR now? Sounds like 42 and 43 are going to my life for a few months
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
I always wondered if ATR pilots on long legs got bored and went back and rifled through people's luggage... lol
Odd place to put a baggage pit. Those crazy Frenchmen!
Odd place to put a baggage pit. Those crazy Frenchmen!
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
It is for me, but I think it depends on the individual and on the flight department.
Yeah, that's a pretty unique feature to the ATR, all the cargo is accessable from the cabin. That was good in some ways and bad in some ways.
Bad: We carried a Korean's bag from ORD to PIA once. They had Kimchee (sp?) in their bag. OMG I have never smelled anything so horrific in my ENTIRE LIFE. It stank up the entire galley/AFT entry area, and was permeating through the last several pax rows by the time we got to PIA. The station people opened the cargo door and I was like, "Get this crap OFF THIS PLANE!" Even they couldn't believe how bad it smelled.
Also bad: If the moronic, lazyass rampers didn't put up the cargo nets in Cargo 3, upon landing all the bags would come flying through the flimsy-latched partition door and block one of the two exits in the aft galley. Also, bags would then hit me in the right knee. That hurt.
Good: We were in MSN and the CA and I approached the airplane at the open FWD cargo door, the crew bags were kept there and we were trying to get to our bags. As we got close to the bags, we smelled smoke. Not like, eww, someone's been smoking a cigarette smoke, but actual fire smoke. It was obvious something was burning in there. We started pitching bags onto the ramp faster than I think bags have been thrown in a long time. The station people saw us and two came over to see why we were tossing bags onto the ramp. The CA found the offending bag and hollered "that's the one!" as he heaved it away. Someone had packed a pack of matches inside, and the friction of everything rubbing around against each other in the bag had lit the matches and created a smoldering fire. It hadn't gotten to the point of flames yet, but if we hadn't had that kind of access to the bags it could have been a BIG problem later.
Also good: The old 42s had a thick vinyl velcro-closure curtain that hid the access to cargo 3 in the back. In the wintertime, with the vicious MQT winds howling through the back entry area with both door open while boarding the F/A could use this vinyl curtain to wrap themself in and it did a very nice job of blocking the wind. Far better than the cheap overcoats we were issued.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
That's comedy. I remember when I flew the RJ they wanted us to put our crew bags in these big yellow, vinyl, "crew" sacks so the rampers wouldnt take them off the plane. These things would inevitably get left out in the rain and would be dirty and wet and nasty. So inevitably so would your crew bag. Sheesh...
Another story... In the Jetstream we didnt have anywhere to put our hats, so we would leave them on the front row of PAX seats if they were unoccupied. One day we look back and passengers were wearing them. YUK!
Another story... In the Jetstream we didnt have anywhere to put our hats, so we would leave them on the front row of PAX seats if they were unoccupied. One day we look back and passengers were wearing them. YUK!
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
I wrote this on another message board in late Sept / early October as I was making my final decision regarding whether to return to US Airways.
Don't know if it helps or not, but I hope it does.
"My fellow pilots,
The November bid includes 165 recalls. With a roughly 10% recall rate anticipated, this bid should exhaust the furlough list and generate meaningful hiring for US Airways.
I have been told to expect the "take it or leave it" letter within the next two weeks, and that classdates will be scheduled in September and October.
Over the last several months I have labored over this decision. I have spent countless hours on the internet on this forum and many others. I have spent hours more on the telephone with former co-workers, other furloughees, family and friends deliberating over the decision.
5 years is a long time. Honestly I can barely remember what the job was like at US Airways. Over the last 5 years i've worked for 2 regionals before ending up at a corporate flight department. I've moved twice. Our son was born and may take his first steps any day.
I wonder whether i'm the same man I was years ago. Honestly I doubt it. When I started my first job as a Jetstream 31 first officer with Chautauqua I never imagined that I would spend the next decade working for 3 regionals, 1 lcc, 1 major only to end up flying a 7 passenger corporate jet. The airline pilot lifestyle was all I ever wanted. I remember looking at that Jetstream as though it were the finest airplane in the sky. I was proud of the aircraft, proud of the uniform, and proud of the job. I polished my shoes, wore my hat, and dreamed of the day that I would make the inevitable leap to the cockpit of a Boeing.
When that day came in 1999 and US Airways began hiring 100 pilots each month after my date of hire, I thought I had won the lottery. The job was almost everything I dreamed of. Most of my frustrations were with the association. I honestly felt as though ALPA was damaging my career far more then they were helping it. At every turn they seemed intent upon building new barriers to prevent the company from competing in the airline industry. The contract was amazing, and I appreciated everything it offered, but as I became more involved and attended ALPA meetings I realized that I completely misunderstood ALPA's mission. To me the union's motto should have been "ALPA: Job security is Job #1". But it wasn't. ALPA protected its most senior members at the expense of it's most junior. It robbed from the poor, to give to the rich.
Later, with thousands of pilots on furlough, ALPA would continue to shield it's most senior members by allowing the company to raise pay-caps, by continuing to allow the outsourcing of an armada of regional jets, by failing its most junior members.
The national union leadership could clearly see that a nationwide whipsaw was in effect couldn't they? How could they successfully represent both the US Airways pilots who had lost their jobs and the regional jet pilots who were reaping the benefit?
Over the last 5 years the airline pilot profession has changed. Compensation, lifestyle, work-rules, duty rigs, and retirement have all suffered. Narrowbody jets with as many as 95 passenger seats are flown by outsourced feeders at a fraction of the pay and benefits that such positions should command... and pilots line up for those positions. Pilots spend countless nights away from their families in pursuit of a lifestyle that no longer exists. Except for those rare few who work for FedEx or UPS, the dream is dead.
The profession does not protect experience. If US Airways were to disappear tomorrow its pilots, should they choose to continue in their profession, would start over. Just as the 1800+ furloughees were forced to find employment as commuter first officers, charter pilots, expatriots (yes, they left their COUNTRY to achieve some measure of success in exchange for their sacrifice)... so too would those who found themselves unemployed due to the destruction of the airline. Who is at fault? Managers who lack the ability to control pricing? ALPA who is incapable of putting a premium on experience and creating a national seniority list to prevent pilots from becoming handcuffed to a single operator?
I'm rambling.
So I made an extensive list of pros and cons. I carried the list with me for weeks and added to it whenever a thought came to me. I stared at that list time and time again trying to see a clear answer. Accept the recall, or abandon the dream in favor of my new life.
I emphasize how much time I put into this because I want the young pilots who read this thread to understand how much time and effort had been put into achieving that major airline position -- and that giving it up has been no easy decision.
But that is the decision I made.
I'm going to remain with the corporate flight department where I am currently employed. It is by no means perfect, but it offers me a lifestyle that could only be enjoyed by the most senior airline pilots. As I write this I sit in a hotel on one of the very rare overnights we are scheduled for. My son's photograph is the wallpaper on my laptop and I can't help but wonder what he is doing right now. Every day he does something that he has never done before and watching him discover the world is just amazing to me. I miss my wife and son after less than 24 hours away. How could I even consider commuting to sit in a Philadelphia crash-pad for days at a time missing out on all of that?
Make no mistake. This has not been easy. I've wanted to be an airline pilot for as long as I can remember. I was that kid -- the one who had no other hobbies, no other interests. I was singularly focused on that airline career.
So thank you everyone for all of the advice, the insider information, the emails and PMs, the phone calls, and the friendship you have provided to help me make this choice. I wish all of the US Airways pilots -- east and west -- the very best. There is something about that airline. Something more than airplanes, tugs, and people. It will survive and prosper in spite of itself. East and West pilots need to come together and take back ALPA.
No more meetings at high priced resorts. Hold your meetings where pilots can attend -- airport hotels at the domiciles. Spend your membership dollars as if they were your own. No more meals at 4 star restaurants. Protect your junior pilots. They are the foundation upon which the profession is being built. Defend their jobs as if they were your own...failure to do so will cause more and more pilots to "look out for #1"... The result of that practice is apparent. G0-Jets, SkyBus, Virgin America...
Good luck to all, and thank you. The experience I gained flying by your sides has made me the pilot that I am today. I will not forget the lessons learned."
Don't know if it helps or not, but I hope it does.
"My fellow pilots,
The November bid includes 165 recalls. With a roughly 10% recall rate anticipated, this bid should exhaust the furlough list and generate meaningful hiring for US Airways.
I have been told to expect the "take it or leave it" letter within the next two weeks, and that classdates will be scheduled in September and October.
Over the last several months I have labored over this decision. I have spent countless hours on the internet on this forum and many others. I have spent hours more on the telephone with former co-workers, other furloughees, family and friends deliberating over the decision.
5 years is a long time. Honestly I can barely remember what the job was like at US Airways. Over the last 5 years i've worked for 2 regionals before ending up at a corporate flight department. I've moved twice. Our son was born and may take his first steps any day.
I wonder whether i'm the same man I was years ago. Honestly I doubt it. When I started my first job as a Jetstream 31 first officer with Chautauqua I never imagined that I would spend the next decade working for 3 regionals, 1 lcc, 1 major only to end up flying a 7 passenger corporate jet. The airline pilot lifestyle was all I ever wanted. I remember looking at that Jetstream as though it were the finest airplane in the sky. I was proud of the aircraft, proud of the uniform, and proud of the job. I polished my shoes, wore my hat, and dreamed of the day that I would make the inevitable leap to the cockpit of a Boeing.
When that day came in 1999 and US Airways began hiring 100 pilots each month after my date of hire, I thought I had won the lottery. The job was almost everything I dreamed of. Most of my frustrations were with the association. I honestly felt as though ALPA was damaging my career far more then they were helping it. At every turn they seemed intent upon building new barriers to prevent the company from competing in the airline industry. The contract was amazing, and I appreciated everything it offered, but as I became more involved and attended ALPA meetings I realized that I completely misunderstood ALPA's mission. To me the union's motto should have been "ALPA: Job security is Job #1". But it wasn't. ALPA protected its most senior members at the expense of it's most junior. It robbed from the poor, to give to the rich.
Later, with thousands of pilots on furlough, ALPA would continue to shield it's most senior members by allowing the company to raise pay-caps, by continuing to allow the outsourcing of an armada of regional jets, by failing its most junior members.
The national union leadership could clearly see that a nationwide whipsaw was in effect couldn't they? How could they successfully represent both the US Airways pilots who had lost their jobs and the regional jet pilots who were reaping the benefit?
Over the last 5 years the airline pilot profession has changed. Compensation, lifestyle, work-rules, duty rigs, and retirement have all suffered. Narrowbody jets with as many as 95 passenger seats are flown by outsourced feeders at a fraction of the pay and benefits that such positions should command... and pilots line up for those positions. Pilots spend countless nights away from their families in pursuit of a lifestyle that no longer exists. Except for those rare few who work for FedEx or UPS, the dream is dead.
The profession does not protect experience. If US Airways were to disappear tomorrow its pilots, should they choose to continue in their profession, would start over. Just as the 1800+ furloughees were forced to find employment as commuter first officers, charter pilots, expatriots (yes, they left their COUNTRY to achieve some measure of success in exchange for their sacrifice)... so too would those who found themselves unemployed due to the destruction of the airline. Who is at fault? Managers who lack the ability to control pricing? ALPA who is incapable of putting a premium on experience and creating a national seniority list to prevent pilots from becoming handcuffed to a single operator?
I'm rambling.
So I made an extensive list of pros and cons. I carried the list with me for weeks and added to it whenever a thought came to me. I stared at that list time and time again trying to see a clear answer. Accept the recall, or abandon the dream in favor of my new life.
I emphasize how much time I put into this because I want the young pilots who read this thread to understand how much time and effort had been put into achieving that major airline position -- and that giving it up has been no easy decision.
But that is the decision I made.
I'm going to remain with the corporate flight department where I am currently employed. It is by no means perfect, but it offers me a lifestyle that could only be enjoyed by the most senior airline pilots. As I write this I sit in a hotel on one of the very rare overnights we are scheduled for. My son's photograph is the wallpaper on my laptop and I can't help but wonder what he is doing right now. Every day he does something that he has never done before and watching him discover the world is just amazing to me. I miss my wife and son after less than 24 hours away. How could I even consider commuting to sit in a Philadelphia crash-pad for days at a time missing out on all of that?
Make no mistake. This has not been easy. I've wanted to be an airline pilot for as long as I can remember. I was that kid -- the one who had no other hobbies, no other interests. I was singularly focused on that airline career.
So thank you everyone for all of the advice, the insider information, the emails and PMs, the phone calls, and the friendship you have provided to help me make this choice. I wish all of the US Airways pilots -- east and west -- the very best. There is something about that airline. Something more than airplanes, tugs, and people. It will survive and prosper in spite of itself. East and West pilots need to come together and take back ALPA.
No more meetings at high priced resorts. Hold your meetings where pilots can attend -- airport hotels at the domiciles. Spend your membership dollars as if they were your own. No more meals at 4 star restaurants. Protect your junior pilots. They are the foundation upon which the profession is being built. Defend their jobs as if they were your own...failure to do so will cause more and more pilots to "look out for #1"... The result of that practice is apparent. G0-Jets, SkyBus, Virgin America...
Good luck to all, and thank you. The experience I gained flying by your sides has made me the pilot that I am today. I will not forget the lessons learned."
greaper007
Well-Known Member
Great post Zap.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
Thanks. It's been about 4 months since I made that decision and -- so far -- i'm still ok with it.
I only cry a little bit when I see a shiny jet nowadays.
I only cry a little bit when I see a shiny jet nowadays.
500and2
Well-Known Member
little one must be running circles around you by now!
quality of life is often sacrificed throughout the airline career. I'm glad you were able to find a good balance in Rogers,AR.
Enjoy the Christmas concerts/recitals this holiday season!
Cheers,
500and2
----what would it take to make an industry wide "seniority" list???? Are there any "negative" aspects of that???? I can't think of any. You just find an airline that has a base where you'd like to live... and the rest is history???
quality of life is often sacrificed throughout the airline career. I'm glad you were able to find a good balance in Rogers,AR.
Enjoy the Christmas concerts/recitals this holiday season!
Cheers,
500and2
----what would it take to make an industry wide "seniority" list???? Are there any "negative" aspects of that???? I can't think of any. You just find an airline that has a base where you'd like to live... and the rest is history???
Thanks. It's been about 4 months since I made that decision and -- so far -- i'm still ok with it.
I only cry a little bit when I see a shiny jet nowadays.
It's tough, isn't it
Every time Bill comes home from work he (and his uniform) smell like airplane. That smell literally gives me flashbacks. Pictures, images in my mind will flash of times at work. I see airplanes on approach to IND and I can picture in my mind the cabin interior, buttoning things up for landing....... I miss parts of it greatly, to the point of tears sometimes, and other parts....... well, not at all
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
HercDriver130
New Member
I left and now I am back. Its a sick sick addiction. I left the business 13 years ago for many reasons. 30 months in the bottom 5% of the senority list at Flagship ( Eagle ) being displaced 5 times in those 30 months. Commuted all but 7 of those months. And even with all of that I would have stayed had we ( the pilots of Flagship/Nashville Eagle ) not be totally bent over by the APA mainline union and AMR mgt. the time was 1994....and APA had balls the size of a grain of sand....and hung 1000 of their "brothers" out to dry.
Problem is... its all I ever wanted to do.... for years I denied the truth that flying really did mean something to me.....
the upside is in those years I did pretty damn well for myself and now at the age of 44 and with nearly 3000 hours of turbine time... Im back in.... ( another sim tonight at 2300 ) ....
Is this life for everybody....no.... life is full of choices......and this is just another one.
Problem is... its all I ever wanted to do.... for years I denied the truth that flying really did mean something to me.....
the upside is in those years I did pretty damn well for myself and now at the age of 44 and with nearly 3000 hours of turbine time... Im back in.... ( another sim tonight at 2300 ) ....
Is this life for everybody....no.... life is full of choices......and this is just another one.
Oh man, you were old Flagship? Yeah, that was NOT a fun time to be there. I was hired by Simmons in Nov of 1995, and was there just as the Flagship folks were getting kicked out of BNA & RDU. A bunch of them came to ORD with their SF3s. The Simmons & Flagship folks in ORD got along a lot better than the Simmons and the Wings folks in DFW.
You'd probably know a couple good friends of ours who were 8N at the same time you were