CASS has nothing to do with being an airline. Unfortunetly it has nothing to do with anything anymore except business. It's AIRINCs child and they are just making money with it. CASS wasn't created for fractionals or offshore drilling heli operations but that's what it's being used for today.
PC12 / Grob SPN
- Thread starter pilotots
- Start date
Stonefly
New Member
I was thinking further about athomeinthesky's post, and wondering what would indeed be the difference of flying for American Eagle vs. Alpha Flying. I utilized the pay posted on another board's salary calculator. I also accounted for being promoted to Captain in seven years at AE, and two years at AF.
Years Alpha AE
10 $77k/$34k $71k
9 $74k/$34k $68k
8 $71k/$34k $67k
7 $68k/$34k $65k
6 $65k/$34k $33k
5 $61k/$34k $33k
4 $57k/$34k $32k
3 $53k/$34k $30k
2 $45k/$29k $28k
1 $38k/$27k $21k
Year (Loss)
1 (6k)
2 (1k)
3 (8k)
4 (13k)
5 (20k)
6 (24k)
7 4k
8 2k
9 0
10 0
Example: Year 1: AF $27k/ AE: $21k
Year 2: AF $29k/ AE: $28k
Year 3: AF (1st year Capt) $38k/ AE: $30k
Year 4: AF (2nd year Capt) $45k/ AE: $32k
etc.
After 10 Years of Flying for AE: Net Loss of $66,000. That's figuring if you get promoted to Capt. in seven years for AE and in two years for AF. That second engine costs you $6,600 per year. Also, I did not account for new payscales for the Grob SPn, this is assuming that the AE pilot flew solely the CRJ (best case scenario), and the AF pilot flew solely the PC-12 (worst case scenario). I know that figures lie, and liars figure, so if anyone sees flaws in my logic please feel free to point them out.
Stonefly
To the guy who said you might as well go to eagle....? American Eagle and AF are two different types of lifestyles and flying....Each will get you to a different place in your career. I have done Corporate 91 and Regional 121....I will take the Corporate flying ANY day. From what I have experienced, in Corporate flying, you are treated more like a human being and part of a family.
In 121, you're just a number and keeping a seat warm. And 121 SIC time is pretty much worthless....so after sitting in the right seat at eagle for 7 years with a bunch of SIC and no PIC, if you were ever furloughed or wanted to make a career move, you'd be in a pretty sticky situation.
Stonefly, I have some questions for you....i'll be sending you a PM in a few days!
In 121, you're just a number and keeping a seat warm. And 121 SIC time is pretty much worthless....so after sitting in the right seat at eagle for 7 years with a bunch of SIC and no PIC, if you were ever furloughed or wanted to make a career move, you'd be in a pretty sticky situation.
Stonefly, I have some questions for you....i'll be sending you a PM in a few days!
TripleSticks
Well-Known Member
The above message beat me to it.
If you are looking purely at the salary numbers then flying for the regional is probably a better idea. But salary is not all that people are looking at. The typical guy who is interested in this job is probably not interested in flying for an airline. For instance..... me. I'm not interested in the airlines at all but I do want a good flying job with a nice QOL and decent pay. One could argue about all those things with this job but that's not really the point of this message.
With that being said. If an airline offered me a job paying a gazillion dollars I would take it. But if the pay scale is a wash, or close to it, then I'll definitely go with the fractional or charter. Especially if it's close to a wash over a 10 year period of time.
If you are looking purely at the salary numbers then flying for the regional is probably a better idea. But salary is not all that people are looking at. The typical guy who is interested in this job is probably not interested in flying for an airline. For instance..... me. I'm not interested in the airlines at all but I do want a good flying job with a nice QOL and decent pay. One could argue about all those things with this job but that's not really the point of this message.
With that being said. If an airline offered me a job paying a gazillion dollars I would take it. But if the pay scale is a wash, or close to it, then I'll definitely go with the fractional or charter. Especially if it's close to a wash over a 10 year period of time.
Jimmy_Norton
Well-Known Member
Ok, I see. But why Peachtree and Ft. Lauderdale? Can't they fly you from any major airport like FlightOptions? I know I should be asking the CP, and I will if he calles me back (sent app monday) but I'm curious to know how this works. thanks
Most of the owners are on the east coast, so there is a very good chance you WON'T airline to PSM, but lets say drive to PBI and do a flight out of there. If you live in St Louis, there are not very many owners in your area, so pretty much every tour they will be buying you an airline ticket. At least with PDK and FXE they are keeping crews close to their customers.
Oh yeah, comparing AF to a commuter is totally apples and oranges, a person that enjoys working for AF won't enjoy working at a commuter, and vice versa
Piperflyer
Well-Known Member
Are there many customers out west?
Jimmy_Norton
Well-Known Member
My scientific answer is few to none. Their primary operating area is east of 91w latitude, which is pretty much the Mississippi river. I guess there could be owners west of there but it would be overly expensive for them.
Do you need an ATP to upgrade at planesense?
I know that under 135 you can't be PIC of a turbojet or any plane with 10 or more passenger seats or a multiengine in a commuter operation without an ATP.
The PC-12 has 9 passenger seats or 6-8 in executive seating so you could operate as PIC under 135 in the PC-12 without an ATP right?
I'm asking because I'm 20 and 3 years is along time to seat right seat in a PC-12. Any advice would be appreciated.
*I just re-read and saw they operate under part 91 would I still need an ATP or would planesene require it?
I know that under 135 you can't be PIC of a turbojet or any plane with 10 or more passenger seats or a multiengine in a commuter operation without an ATP.
The PC-12 has 9 passenger seats or 6-8 in executive seating so you could operate as PIC under 135 in the PC-12 without an ATP right?
I'm asking because I'm 20 and 3 years is along time to seat right seat in a PC-12. Any advice would be appreciated.
*I just re-read and saw they operate under part 91 would I still need an ATP or would planesene require it?
Stonefly
New Member
It's 91k, so no ATP is required to be a Captain, but then again it is required by FAR's to have 1500 hours. So there you go. A little bonus that AF gives, is to allow you to get your ATP SE on one of your checkrides, so if you want it it doesn't cost you anything.
Stonefly
secretapproach
New Member
A friend of mine recently quit his job flying 747s for Evergreen to fly the PC-12 in a corporate flight department in Fargo, ND (his and my hometown). He is loving it and says he doesn't miss flying the 747. He does more landings in one day now than he used to do in a whole month in the 747.
eglplt
Well-Known Member
Whoa there sparky!! It is obvious you love your company, but when you compare payscales you need to compare apples to apples, which you did not do comparing Alpha Flying to American Eagle! I assume you did this because you can get hired at AF with incredibly low flight time and experience, just like Eagle? How did you select Eagle as you comparitor? Why don't you compare other fractionals payscales to AF? Just some thoughts you might consider next time.
PS: NJA Captain hit the nail on the head when he explained how terribly bad an idea merit based upgrades are! Of course you think it is fantastic, it worked out very favorably for you. What if the tables would have been turned against you?
Stonefly
New Member
Perhaps you are the one who needs to "Whoa there sparky!" Did you read the posts leading up to my post, or are you simply reacting to one post assuming you have all the info needed? If you re-read my post, you will see that I was referring to another person's post who was the one that made the AE/AF comparison. There is no need to assume, just go back and re-read mine and the other posts it refers too.
I don't love my company. I think that it's a good company, and I don't mind saying so. Perhaps Alpha Flying will be a career, perhaps it will be just a stage of my career. Who knows? As far as the merit based upgrades go, I have never worked in my life at any career that that wasn't the way to get ahead. The Marines: Merit. The Fire Service: Merit. Aviation (Airtankers/Smokejumpers): Merit. Where I come from, promotions/upgrades are done by doing a good job. I have never worked in a system where promotion/upgrade was based solely upon a seniority number. But hey, you go with what works for you, Sparky.
Stonefly
Edit: Just for you, I went pack and copied the post I referred to that made the AE/AF comparison. I even emphasised it for you:
So if you got hired with 500tt the future would look somewhat like this:
year 1-2 pc12 first officer
year 2-4 pc 12 captain
year 4-6 grob first officer
year 6-8 grob captain
No seniority list, way more single engine props than jets, jets will probably not arrive on time, most expensive part of the country.
8 years just seems to be a really long time for a company that is somewhat new, you could do 3 or 4 years here and still be no better off than a cfi who instructed single engine for a few months.
With those types of times you might as well go with American Eagle in Boston.
NJA_Capt
Well-Known Member
Never said you guys were but there are other Fractionals seeking the use of CASS.
slushie
F2TH C56X C500
azpilot84
New Member
APC has a "n/a" in their jumpseats section on NetJets.oh alright, I didn't know airnet/netjets etc were airlines either
thx!
ChristheCFII
Well-Known Member
Anyone with updates on Planesense hiring? I sent my Resume in two days ago. How long does it take to get a reply?
docflyer
New Member
Give it a little more time. I think it took a week or two before I heard back.
danerickson11
New Member
Man, I sent my resume in on April 1st and have also sent a follow-up email and have not yet gotten a response. I easily meet the minimums; not quite sure what the holdup is.