CFI Training Opt-out
- Thread starter dmlong
- Start date
v1valarob
Well-Known Member
I think ATP graduate is just an easy way of saying "i finished the program." There really is no such thing as graduating. Your ceremony when you finish is packing up your car and hauling ass home with your new certificates to go look for a job.
-Rob
v1valarob
Well-Known Member
Actually....
The DE gives you your final license (diploma.)
ATP gives you a hat when you sign up for the program.
When you get hired by ATP, they give you a silly green ATP windbreaker as your gown!
So you kinda do get all 3
-Rob
knma'91
Well-Known Member
Actually....
The DE gives you your final license (diploma.)
ATP gives you a hat when you sign up for the program.
When you get hired by ATP, they give you a silly green ATP windbreaker as your gown!
So you kinda do get all 3
-Rob
The green wind breakers are just for jax. none of the instructors on the west coast have them or maybe they just dont where them.
SIUav8er
Narcosis
youre just jealous cause you didnt get invited to the graduation ceremony. It must suck not gettnig to walk with the rest of your class.
amorris311
Well-Known Member
they wear them in phx
directenterenter
New Member
In retrospect, I would have taken the money, and put it toward my career...the knowledge base that ATP (FV in particular) and more importantly, the attitude most leave ATP with is sub-par. No knock on current ATP CFI grad's, I was am one. But, students resent a CFI that is "time-building" on their dime, on their mental expense, and unfortunately that is what ATP is producing.
If CFI'ing hasn't/isn't something you've want/ed to do, than don't...the only one that lose's out is your student. There are other ways to get your hours. I think Rod Machado has written a few powerfull articles on this matter.
I look at it this way. If I want to get my CFI, ATP via FV isn't the only way. Many FBO's will give you a significant price reduction if you agree to teach for them when you get the ticket.
All in all, students don't deserve to be be taught by someone that has the mindset of hours, hours hours.Teaching some one to fly, to put themselves into a potentially deadly situation, with not only their lives at stake, but other civilians, and possibly their close family without the fullest of dedication, is wrong, is a bad policy, is immoral, is not a good "time-building", whatever, is not right...
That said...if you signed up with ATP to be an instructor, by all means, get s$%tcanned by FV et al.
...rant
If CFI'ing hasn't/isn't something you've want/ed to do, than don't...the only one that lose's out is your student. There are other ways to get your hours. I think Rod Machado has written a few powerfull articles on this matter.
I look at it this way. If I want to get my CFI, ATP via FV isn't the only way. Many FBO's will give you a significant price reduction if you agree to teach for them when you get the ticket.
All in all, students don't deserve to be be taught by someone that has the mindset of hours, hours hours.Teaching some one to fly, to put themselves into a potentially deadly situation, with not only their lives at stake, but other civilians, and possibly their close family without the fullest of dedication, is wrong, is a bad policy, is immoral, is not a good "time-building", whatever, is not right...
That said...if you signed up with ATP to be an instructor, by all means, get s$%tcanned by FV et al.
...rant
v1valarob
Well-Known Member
They give them to everyone at standardization. I even got one, and then was fired! I blacked out the ATP part with a sharpie though haha.
-Rob
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
"All in all, students don't deserve to be be taught by someone that has the mindset of hours, hours hours."
Or someone who was a PPL 90 days ago...
For what ATP costs, and the way people are pushed through in such a short time, I think people deserve more (just my opinion).
Or someone who was a PPL 90 days ago...
For what ATP costs, and the way people are pushed through in such a short time, I think people deserve more (just my opinion).
directenterenter
New Member
:yeahthat: amen DE727....ATP's CFI's rarely are "instructors" or "educator's" they suffice a legal requirement, think thats about it (for the most part, I had a great instructor at ATP, but he was not the norm)
Fly_Unity
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't opt out of CFI school if I was you.. I too didnt think I wanted to instruct before going to ATP, in fact I didnt want to instruct period, didnt think I could be an instructor, and only did it to build time. I got done with ATP's program Feb 07, and now gave almost 1000 dual given, and now Im not looking forward to quitting instructing. I would probaly be a career instructor if it paid a bit more.
727UPS: I would be crazy out of my mind if I was still paying to fly, and only had 250 hours, which is where I would be if I hadn't went to ATP, I agree that ATP is a mill, but considering how much more time I get to instruct, its actually pretty cheap, and never have to worry about multi time.
727UPS: I would be crazy out of my mind if I was still paying to fly, and only had 250 hours, which is where I would be if I hadn't went to ATP, I agree that ATP is a mill, but considering how much more time I get to instruct, its actually pretty cheap, and never have to worry about multi time.
Fly_Unity
Well-Known Member
I been at FBO's, 141 schools and ATP, there is not a difference in the average quality on instructors. The 141 school Im at now hires pretty much anyone who walks in the door with a wet ticket without even a interview.
I also had a great 13 year career instructor at ATP, which helped me become a better instructor.
v1valarob
Well-Known Member
::raises hand::
Its the way I feel. I know before going to CFI school I was looking for anyway out, and was looking for any flying job. But I couldn't find one that I could do and afford to live at the same time.
But now Im so glad I did it. CFIing is a ton of fun, and boosts your confidence in your own skills. The amount of repetition that goes into instructing helps with your own skills. Plus the actual lifestyle is great because of all the freedoms my flight school gives us.
I was planning on going to a regional as soon as I hit the hours, but I dont think thats going to happen anymore. Im also glad ATP fired me, I feel instructing at an FBO is way better. There is no way I would have been a good instrument instructor, I barely know the system myself. I cant teach it and would have definitely short-changed my students at ATP.
-Rob
v1valarob
Well-Known Member
Funny part is at my Part 141 school, if you decided to not go to ATP because you felt the instruction was probably sub-par, you would be in for a surprise when you found out all of the full time CFIs are ATP ACPP "grads"
-Rob
Clocks
Well-Known Member
Nah you'll be fine when you do it.
You'll feel off balanced the first time you take a student up to do approaches, but not much worse than when you first took up a student. The difference is you do have to prepare more for your instrument students, because they think of even more obscure questions and scenarios and it's always good to think those questions through ahead of time.
As far as time building CFIs go...every CFI that ever taught me was a CFI for time building (at my 141 university, and they were all wet-ticket 250 hour CFIs who passed a 4 hour interview and 1 flight). In fact now that I think about it...I've never trained with a CFI with more than 800 hours. I didn't have a problem with any of those instructor's knowledge level or dedication to my success. There are probably some crappy CFIs out there due to their distraction of "hours hours hours", but I don't think ATP's CFIs are any different than the large number of CFIs who aren't in it as a career (and any CFI who isn't in it for a career is arguably "time building").
meyers9163
Well-Known Member
Need we go through this circus again? Some of the best instructors instruct at various of locations.... and some of the FBO's out there have some of the worse and best CFIs...... Get some more expereicne with getting ratings at a various of loations and you will learn this for a fact..... Let alone get your CFI buddies at different fbos and flight academys and colleges and you learn this...... Being a GOOD CFI is all about attitude and what EFFORT you put into it..... Someone at ATP could very well be a great instructor and someone back at my local fbo (which i loved) could be a billion times worse.... No correlation at all..
directenterenter
New Member
Unless you got your ticket w/ATP, I'm not going to open up a vein and try and explain to you...I did get my ratings at various locations, 61, 141 ATP, etc etc, call me naive but I think I got the expirence too...I would argue that the instructor that is taking a guy through his initial does have some impact on that CFI, if you think otherwise...forgive me....of course effort and attitude are always going to dictate a persons success...but agian, I do believe there is a correlation, I believe that the attitude and demeanor that I present to a student effects their learning as well as their habits and mindset, couldn't it be argued that that same principle applies to an aspiring CFI? I'd like to hope so, but I may be wrong
