JBUCREW
Well-Known Member
So the dispatchers get a contract.... I wonder if its a bad as the flight attendants contract... Pilots are next 
http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/071213/0339811.html
http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/071213/0339811.html
Pinnacle Airlines Reaches Initial Contract With Dispatchers
- Thread starter JBUCREW
- Start date
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Re: Pinnacle Airlines Reaches Initial Contract With Dispatch
I'd like to see it. The FAs are just now realizing how badly they got screwed. Curiously, some of the union reps that were pushing for the contract now have management positions. Hmmm. Amazing what people will bend over and take when you say "We'll give you a FREE BAG!" Nevermind the fact that it won't fit in the overhead if you pack it for a normal trip.
The plus to the FAs getting hosed and knowing it now is they're backing us up in order to get some payback.
I'd like to see it. The FAs are just now realizing how badly they got screwed. Curiously, some of the union reps that were pushing for the contract now have management positions. Hmmm. Amazing what people will bend over and take when you say "We'll give you a FREE BAG!" Nevermind the fact that it won't fit in the overhead if you pack it for a normal trip.
The plus to the FAs getting hosed and knowing it now is they're backing us up in order to get some payback.
JBUCREW
Well-Known Member
Re: Pinnacle Airlines Reaches Initial Contract With Dispatch
did you hear that Delta is pulling 4000 hours of flying from the connection carriers... Sounds like Comair/Mesa are going to get the screws. I wonder what that will do to our Delta flying, more/stay the same. Heard a rumor that we may be putting some of our 900's into JFK for Delta.
On the flipside Compass is coming into DTW in JAN... We just keep losing flying in DTW/MSP to Compass and Mesaba. I also heard a United contract for 900's and Q400's is underway right now... now these are all just hearsay but it could mean that NWA flying is going and the future could be Delta/United. Just some thoughts.
did you hear that Delta is pulling 4000 hours of flying from the connection carriers... Sounds like Comair/Mesa are going to get the screws. I wonder what that will do to our Delta flying, more/stay the same. Heard a rumor that we may be putting some of our 900's into JFK for Delta.
On the flipside Compass is coming into DTW in JAN... We just keep losing flying in DTW/MSP to Compass and Mesaba. I also heard a United contract for 900's and Q400's is underway right now... now these are all just hearsay but it could mean that NWA flying is going and the future could be Delta/United. Just some thoughts.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Re: Pinnacle Airlines Reaches Initial Contract With Dispatch
I got no doubts that NWA flying is just gonna continue to shrink. Makes since considering they own both Mesaba and Compass. Also fits with their "pump 'em and sell 'em" philosophy with wholly owned regionals. Beat down Mesaba, give them -900s and lots of flying, then spin them off in an IPO. Sound familiar? They did the same thing to Express Airlines I when they sold them in an IPO as Pinnacle Airlines. I'm betting Compass won't be around long enough for the flowthrough agreement to even kick in. They'll sell it in month 29, and the guys that went there for the flow through will get the shaft. I hope I'm wrong, though.
The reason we're losing routes (that aren't really "ours" anyway) to Mesaba and Compass is b/c 50 seaters are always oversold on those routes. Phil and Co will probably use that little tidbit to try to convince people once again that the pilots sunk the airline when we didn't agree to a subpar contract back in March. Although, I HIGHLY doubt we would have gotten -900s even if we had signed that crappy contract. They were going to Mesaba the whole time, IMO.
I don't think we're gonna lose any Delta flying, but we might not get any more from Delta. That's fine with me since it looks like Delta is axing some regional routes in favor of more MD-88s/90s. Upward mobility for me. Which means management might actually have to do some work for a change. There's no way they can justify the cost of the 900 program with only 16 airplanes flying. They either need more Delta flying or.....
United I could see happening. They're in trouble financially, and either need to outsource more or merge. No secret Tilton's shopping for a merger partner, and Mesa keeps dropping the ball on the regional flying. My guess is we're actually in a good position to snag some of that flying, especially since we've already got the cash and the program in place for the airplanes United wanted Mesas to run when Mesa was having trouble getting them up and going. Although, I'd bet Colgan's a closer to done deal with Q400s than we might be with the -900s. They already fly under the United banner, and giving us more planes when management is crying that we won't be able to grow without a crap contract kinda goes against everything they want. I was surprised they announced the Delta flying, but then again they held on to that as long as they possibly could. It was literally "We can't get anymore flying unless you sign our last, best and final offer." Two weeks later they announced the Delta flying. So much for that last, best and final offer....
I got no doubts that NWA flying is just gonna continue to shrink. Makes since considering they own both Mesaba and Compass. Also fits with their "pump 'em and sell 'em" philosophy with wholly owned regionals. Beat down Mesaba, give them -900s and lots of flying, then spin them off in an IPO. Sound familiar? They did the same thing to Express Airlines I when they sold them in an IPO as Pinnacle Airlines. I'm betting Compass won't be around long enough for the flowthrough agreement to even kick in. They'll sell it in month 29, and the guys that went there for the flow through will get the shaft. I hope I'm wrong, though.
The reason we're losing routes (that aren't really "ours" anyway) to Mesaba and Compass is b/c 50 seaters are always oversold on those routes. Phil and Co will probably use that little tidbit to try to convince people once again that the pilots sunk the airline when we didn't agree to a subpar contract back in March. Although, I HIGHLY doubt we would have gotten -900s even if we had signed that crappy contract. They were going to Mesaba the whole time, IMO.
I don't think we're gonna lose any Delta flying, but we might not get any more from Delta. That's fine with me since it looks like Delta is axing some regional routes in favor of more MD-88s/90s. Upward mobility for me. Which means management might actually have to do some work for a change. There's no way they can justify the cost of the 900 program with only 16 airplanes flying. They either need more Delta flying or.....
United I could see happening. They're in trouble financially, and either need to outsource more or merge. No secret Tilton's shopping for a merger partner, and Mesa keeps dropping the ball on the regional flying. My guess is we're actually in a good position to snag some of that flying, especially since we've already got the cash and the program in place for the airplanes United wanted Mesas to run when Mesa was having trouble getting them up and going. Although, I'd bet Colgan's a closer to done deal with Q400s than we might be with the -900s. They already fly under the United banner, and giving us more planes when management is crying that we won't be able to grow without a crap contract kinda goes against everything they want. I was surprised they announced the Delta flying, but then again they held on to that as long as they possibly could. It was literally "We can't get anymore flying unless you sign our last, best and final offer." Two weeks later they announced the Delta flying. So much for that last, best and final offer....
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
Re: Pinnacle Airlines Reaches Initial Contract With Dispatch
A thought occurred to me last night, which may or may not be obvious to everyone else. If I'm just stating the obvious, forgive me...
Without a union at the Colgan 'division' to back up your efforts at Pinnacle, could it be possible that in fact ALL future flying will go to Colgan if the Q400 program takes off? Seriously- it occurred to me that if Colgan didn't have the megabucks to buy all those planes pre-merger (let's call it what it is) then that's a fat chunk for Pinnacle to be spending. If it's Pinnacle spending money on Colgan airplanes and pilots, it's just money that should have been in Pinnacle pilot's pockets.
Everybody's talked about the 'whipsaw' that will happen. I think it's already been going on a long, long time.
A thought occurred to me last night, which may or may not be obvious to everyone else. If I'm just stating the obvious, forgive me...
Without a union at the Colgan 'division' to back up your efforts at Pinnacle, could it be possible that in fact ALL future flying will go to Colgan if the Q400 program takes off? Seriously- it occurred to me that if Colgan didn't have the megabucks to buy all those planes pre-merger (let's call it what it is) then that's a fat chunk for Pinnacle to be spending. If it's Pinnacle spending money on Colgan airplanes and pilots, it's just money that should have been in Pinnacle pilot's pockets.
Everybody's talked about the 'whipsaw' that will happen. I think it's already been going on a long, long time.
SmitteyB
Well-Known Member
Re: Pinnacle Airlines Reaches Initial Contract With Dispatch
Pinnacle bought those Q400's with the money they got back from NWA.
What did/and should burn the Pinnacle Pilots is the deal for the Q's was like $250 million for the airplanes...weren't the two groups (PNCL ALPA and PNCL MGT) like $50 million apart for the LIFE of the contract?
Pinnacle bought those Q400's with the money they got back from NWA.
What did/and should burn the Pinnacle Pilots is the deal for the Q's was like $250 million for the airplanes...weren't the two groups (PNCL ALPA and PNCL MGT) like $50 million apart for the LIFE of the contract?
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
Re: Pinnacle Airlines Reaches Initial Contract With Dispatch
Something like that. The real gist of it is that Pinnacle would have been able, time and time again, to avoid losing buckets of money by giving in to the Pinnacle pilot group.
I've heard it said elsewhere- airline management types will step over a dollar to pick up a dime.
At the same time, they're not dumb. Giving in to one pilot group paves the way the next. 9/11 was the excuse they needed to beat us back collectively by decades. Now we've got the uphill, pitched battle of taking it back.
Something like that. The real gist of it is that Pinnacle would have been able, time and time again, to avoid losing buckets of money by giving in to the Pinnacle pilot group.
I've heard it said elsewhere- airline management types will step over a dollar to pick up a dime.
At the same time, they're not dumb. Giving in to one pilot group paves the way the next. 9/11 was the excuse they needed to beat us back collectively by decades. Now we've got the uphill, pitched battle of taking it back.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Re: Pinnacle Airlines Reaches Initial Contract With Dispatch
Correct on both counts. This is what we heard in the span of a month "There's no money for the pilots to get a raise." "We're gonna lose the contract with NWA if you don't sign this deal." "We can't get more flying with another carrier if you don't sign this." Within the next TWO WEEKS, there was a brand new long term agreement with NWA. Not long after that, they took the $$$ from NWA and acquired Colgan. Then they sold off some more shares from NWA and bought the Q400s. Then, they bought the -900s and disclosed the Delta deal. All, curiously, without us signing a concessionary contract. Oh, they'll tell you their deal wasn't concessionary. They'll even toss out "industry average." But the fact is, if we had signed that deal, pilots would be bringing home LESS money at the end of the day than they are now thanks to work rules and increased insurance premiums.
We've heard the sky is falling too many times from management over here, only to see 3 times the money it would have cost to settle a deal spent on something else.
Correct on both counts. This is what we heard in the span of a month "There's no money for the pilots to get a raise." "We're gonna lose the contract with NWA if you don't sign this deal." "We can't get more flying with another carrier if you don't sign this." Within the next TWO WEEKS, there was a brand new long term agreement with NWA. Not long after that, they took the $$$ from NWA and acquired Colgan. Then they sold off some more shares from NWA and bought the Q400s. Then, they bought the -900s and disclosed the Delta deal. All, curiously, without us signing a concessionary contract. Oh, they'll tell you their deal wasn't concessionary. They'll even toss out "industry average." But the fact is, if we had signed that deal, pilots would be bringing home LESS money at the end of the day than they are now thanks to work rules and increased insurance premiums.
We've heard the sky is falling too many times from management over here, only to see 3 times the money it would have cost to settle a deal spent on something else.
Cruise
Well-Known Member
Re: Pinnacle Airlines Reaches Initial Contract With Dispatch
Let me know when/ where we need to walk the picket line. I'd be more than happy to donate a little of my time to help you guys out. What is the status of the strike vote.....are you in the 'cooling off' period right now?
Let me know when/ where we need to walk the picket line. I'd be more than happy to donate a little of my time to help you guys out. What is the status of the strike vote.....are you in the 'cooling off' period right now?
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Re: Pinnacle Airlines Reaches Initial Contract With Dispatch
Strike vote is done, and it was a doozy, 87% participation with a 99% "yes" vote. We won't be released to a cooling off period until an impasse is declared, and the NMB releases us. Even then, we've got to avoid the Presidential Board that could delay it further. Odds are, with the current NMB, we won't even see a release. They'll just tell the mediator to keep us talking despite the fact that it's borderline hopeless. It'll be a 2-1 vote pretty much every time as far as releasing us, and the 2's are gonna be "keep them at the table, we don't want a strike."
ALPA is kinda recommending that the Colgan guys NOT walk the picket line. You guys are "at will" employees and as such are subject to retribution from management that you won't really have much footing to fight back on. That being said, there IS a lot of behind the scenes work that you can volunteer for. It's sorta like being on probation since you could find yourself unemployed with no help for getting your job back.
Strike vote is done, and it was a doozy, 87% participation with a 99% "yes" vote. We won't be released to a cooling off period until an impasse is declared, and the NMB releases us. Even then, we've got to avoid the Presidential Board that could delay it further. Odds are, with the current NMB, we won't even see a release. They'll just tell the mediator to keep us talking despite the fact that it's borderline hopeless. It'll be a 2-1 vote pretty much every time as far as releasing us, and the 2's are gonna be "keep them at the table, we don't want a strike."
ALPA is kinda recommending that the Colgan guys NOT walk the picket line. You guys are "at will" employees and as such are subject to retribution from management that you won't really have much footing to fight back on. That being said, there IS a lot of behind the scenes work that you can volunteer for. It's sorta like being on probation since you could find yourself unemployed with no help for getting your job back.
Cruise
Well-Known Member
Re: Pinnacle Airlines Reaches Initial Contract With Dispatch
Yeah, I saw the news of the strike vote......just didn't really know where it went from there.
Also, I thought about the retribution thing from management......it sux our vote didn't pass. Here's to the '08 vote!!!!! So with that in mind, let me know what 'other stuff' I can do to help (if anything).....behind the scene for me.
Yeah, I saw the news of the strike vote......just didn't really know where it went from there.
Also, I thought about the retribution thing from management......it sux our vote didn't pass. Here's to the '08 vote!!!!! So with that in mind, let me know what 'other stuff' I can do to help (if anything).....behind the scene for me.
JBUCREW
Well-Known Member
Re: Pinnacle Airlines Reaches Initial Contract With Dispatch
Thanks for the support! behind the scene's is good... dont go losing your job. We do need all the help we can get....
Thanks for the support! behind the scene's is good... dont go losing your job. We do need all the help we can get....