Corporate vs. regional pros &cons

[newty]

OK here is the "situation" You can choose between flying a king air single pilot for some rich dudes or you can sit in the right seat of a skywest rj. Money at kingair job is triple skwest 1st year. some benefits ie: health. No jumpseat or travel priveleges. In the short term this seems like a no brainer, my question is what are the LONG TERM pros and cons to each? I know alot of this depends on what you want out of life and what your goals are so please feel free to base your comments on your own goals or on hypotheticals. Go ahead now and discuss.

 

[Piperflyer]

Don't forget there is more out there than Skywest. If you go somewhere like Chautaqua or Mesaba or Bigsky you can upgrade really quickly maybe even 6 months. Now that would be something to consider IMP

 

[CapnJim]

Another "discuss" thread?

Ok, I'll throw you a bone:
There are no long term pros to flying a little turboprop. The Kingair is simply not a career destination, and it's not too hot a stepping stone either. See, when the rich dudes decide the don't want a Kingair anymore and let you go (which they can and almost invariably do, since you have no union, no contract, and no schedule to call your own) you're going to think you're ok with all your Kingair Turbine PIC time, until you're sitting in an interview group for a major 121 outfit (including FedEx and UPS) with fifteen other dudes who have sept-wing turbojet time. Where does that leave you? Nowhere. You go from $60,000 a year to zilch, with no prospect of doing much better than half that.

Then you're either back at the regionals, or back flying on-demand freight, or, God help you, thinking that a place like GoJets or SkyBus might be a real slick career move.

HOWEVER!

You may have enough experience to get a job with one of the fractional airlines, shoud that be a career direction that you want to take. I have a couple of friends who fly for a fractional airline, and they love it.

On the other hand, Skywest is a fantastic regional, with good flying, a great contract, and appropriate upgrade times. (I use the word "appropriate" because at places like Skywest and ExpressJet, you don't have some 9 month guy sitting left seat like Mesa, nor do you see career RJ FO's like Eagle.) Once you put in your time there, you'll be competitively qualified for almost any flying job that you would like. The downside? The oft-derided (and rightfully so) 1st year pay. People make it sound like your whole career at a regional is the 1st year. It isn't. Think about second year pay, third year pay, upgrade pay (when you make Captain) as well as profit sharing, overtime, days off, benefits, travel benefits, work rules, reserve rules, etc. etc. The first year pay isn't the whole story. It's only one aspect that people who have an irrational fear of RJ's like to hype. If this puts anything into perspective, my first year pay was $21.50. That year, I paid taxes on $35,000 dollars of income, and averaged 15 days off a month (some months were 12, some were 17) with about 80 hours flying each month, plus all the other benefits. No, it's really hard to complain about my airline, but it's really easy to laugh at people who ignorantly deride it for only being a "regional" airline. (I'm assuming that they are using the word "region" to refer to the entire northwestern hemisphere of Planet Earth, or they are grossly ignorant of the type of flying we do.)

~~

Now, I think I've answered your question, so I have a question for you: What are your career goals? Where do you want to be at 25? 35? 45? 55? Family? House? Kids? College?

The more questions you can ask and answer about where you want your life to go, the easier it is to decide what kind of aviation career arc you will want to follow. So, then, what is it?

 

[wheelsup]

60 grand off the bat flying a king air? As long as it's not 24/7 on call I'd do that in a heartbeat over regional flying.

Sit at home, pay down the house in 3 years, buy another, pay it off, buy another, pay it off, buy another, pay it off, retire on rental income or keep working if you want. If you get kicked to the curb corporate outfits looking for experienced pilots are going to be hiring like gangbusters, no worries there.

 

[CapnJim]

Don't forget there is more out there than Skywest. If you go somewhere like Chautaqua or Mesaba or Bigsky you can upgrade really quickly maybe even 6 months. Now that would be something to consider IMP

You're an evil, evil, but very fuuny fellow.

 

[wheelsup]

my first year pay was $21.50. That year, I paid taxes on $35,000 dollars of income, and averaged 15 days off a month (some months were 12, some were 17)

$35k first year? I find that hard to believe.

 

[CapnJim]

Profit sharing.
Overtime.
Add pay.
Soft Time.
Red-Flag time.

It all adds up, if you learn how to work the system in your favor. Mind you, that in no way excuses the Company for thinking that $21.50 and hour is appropriate, nor is my case typical of all pilots at my regional. Some made less, and some made even more. But there it is. Consider that our corporate charter division has an $18 dollar override. Pick up Red-flagged time under that (+50% on top) and you're looking at $59.20/hr, 1st year.

Admittedly, it would be difficult for a 1st year guy to make that kind of pay for any appreciable length of time if ever, but I don't know many major airlines who can even say that that amount of 1st year hourly pay is even possible.

So no, not all the regionals are about low pay. Not even close.

 

[wheelsup]

How much of that was profit sharing?

 

[CapnJim]

Not much, but that sure was a nice check to get.

 

[Piperflyer]

You're an evil, evil, but very fuuny fellow.

Maybe. I'm just saying where I would have gone to if I was looking for my first airline job.

 

[CapnJim]

Maybe. I'm just saying where I would have gone to if I was looking for my first airline job.

Oh Jesus! You were serious? I'm sorry, I thought that was a joke.

 

[falconvalley]

Another "discuss" thread?

...you're going to think you're ok with all your Kingair Turbine PIC time, until you're sitting in an interview group for a major 121 outfit (including FedEx and UPS) with fifteen other dudes who have sept-wing turbojet time. Where does that leave you? Nowhere...

I agree with everything you said except this. Drop the scenario, let's just talk about turboprops. You ever fly one before? You ever fly one single-pilot? Ride along with someone sometime and you just may look at that "Turboprop Guy/Gal" differently someday when they are sitting across from you at the interview table.

 

[CK]

Another "discuss" thread?

Ok, I'll throw you a bone:
There are no long term pros to flying a little turboprop. The Kingair is simply not a career destination, and it's not too hot a stepping stone either.

Ouch! Although I understand where you are coming from, that is not really all that true. My father currently flies a King Air and hopes to be there for the rest of his career. He makes just under six figures and works about ten days a month. A King Air is also a great stepping stone to a larger corporate gig, which some people perfer to a major. It is actually a very hot stepping stone for just about any one in corporate aviatoin and is many pilots' first turbine airplane.

See, when the rich dudes decide the don't want a Kingair anymore and let you go

Luckily for us, airline travel sucks so much, that, unless the man goes broke or stops traveling, he will want that King Air around. I am not saying you have 100% job security, but you don't have that at the regionals anyway!

you're going to think you're ok with all your Kingair Turbine PIC time, until you're sitting in an interview group for a major 121 outfit (including FedEx and UPS) with fifteen other dudes who have sept-wing turbojet time.

Both of my parents were hired at majors with their only TPIC being in King Airs (one at US Air and the other at UPS). If you are the right person, you will get hired no matter what your turbine time is in.

The downside? The oft-derided (and rightfully so) 1st year pay. People make it sound like your whole career at a regional is the 1st year. It isn't. Think about second year pay, third year pay, upgrade pay (when you make Captain) as well as profit sharing, overtime, days off, benefits, travel benefits, work rules, reserve rules, etc. etc. The first year pay isn't the whole story. It's only one aspect that people who have an irrational fear of RJ's like to hype. If this puts anything into perspective, my first year pay was $21.50. That year, I paid taxes on $35,000 dollars of income, and averaged 15 days off a month (some months were 12, some were 17) with about 80 hours flying each month, plus all the other benefits.

I made just under twice what you made in my first year (which is still going on) when I flew a six seat single (which has since been upgraded to a twin turbine) for a "rich dude". That does not include the access I had to the aircraft for personal use, which the boss paid for the gas. Nor my birthday present (a Bose headset and wood models of all four planes we had owned at the time) or my Christmas bonus. Most months had me flying an average of about 15 days aswell. I also had the month of November off since the plane was down, paid of course.

No, it's really hard to complain about my airline, but it's really easy to laugh at people who ignorantly deride it for only being a "regional" airline.

It is also easy to laugh at people who think flying for a regional is the only way to go. I am not talking about you Jim, just a general statement.

Alex.

 

[SteveC]

I often think that flying a King Air will be my end goal. First get my pay scale up a little bit higher by spending a few more years flying corporate/charter jets, then look for a good local KA job that appreciates maturity and customer service, pays well, and has me home in my own bed most nights. Day trips are the shiznet. Bigger/faster planes mean a bigger suitcase; anti-QOL to my way of thinking.

 

[Olduser]

First, let me start by saying my dream job is to fly a King Air, Part 91, 10 days a month, no more than 200 hours a year, no overnights, with a six figure income. Ok, now back to reality...

That King Air job will have you in FBOs meeting other corporate pilots. Meeting those other pilots can lead to other corporate jobs. You're not going to meet those corporate pilots flying for an airline.

There's nothing wrong with flying a turboprop single pilot. I spent the last two and a half years flying PC-12s and Meridians mostly single pilot Part 135 Charter. That job had me sitting in an FBO at KDAL where I met two pilots who fly for the company I fly for now and they told me about a job opening at their company. Now I'm flying King Air C90Bs and 350s with the prospects of moving into a Beechjet down the road.

I had a class date with Comair in 2005. After I got my last job, I called Comair a week before class and said "Thanks, but I won't be coming to class." I haven't regretted it one bit. I made more money my first year at my last job then I would have at Comair in my second year, I didn't have to move, didn't have to commute, etc.

I will say that corporate/charter flying is more work than airline flying. You file the flight plans, make catering arrangements, stock the airplane, get the newspapers, get the ice, get the coffee, brief the passengers, check the weather, determine your fuel load, pick your alternate, etc. But it's very rewarding. Most passengers I've ever flown are always very appreciative of giving them a good flight. It's the little things that matter. For instance, knowing that certain passengers like coke while some like pepsi, or someone likes a certain type of beer, or like something as simple as a Hershy's candy bar.

Business aviation is a great place to make a career. I have yet to work on Thanksgiving or Christmas. I typically work 15 days a month and fly around 500 hours a year. There are other perks...expense accounts instead of per diem, rental cars on overnights, you pick your hotel (don't stay in a dump). You get mini company sponsored vacations in that typically, if you have a 4 day trip, you usually only fly on day 1 and day 4. The two days in between are usually your time to with what you want (sleep, sightsee, golf, etc.).

If you haven't figured it out, I'd say take the King Air job. The airlines will always be there. This job may not come open again for years to come.

 

[MikeOH58]

Another "discuss" thread?

Ok, I'll throw you a bone:
There are no long term pros to flying a little turboprop. The Kingair is simply not a career destination, and it's not too hot a stepping stone either. See, when the rich dudes decide the don't want a Kingair anymore and let you go (which they can and almost invariably do, since you have no union, no contract, and no schedule to call your own) you're going to think you're ok with all your Kingair Turbine PIC time, until you're sitting in an interview group for a major 121 outfit (including FedEx and UPS) with fifteen other dudes who have sept-wing turbojet time. Where does that leave you? Nowhere. You go from $60,000 a year to zilch, with no prospect of doing much better than half that.

In the past 10 months, I have three friends, all who's only TPIC time have been in King Air's, have made career moves from this "not too hot of a stepping stone" airplane.

One flew a BE-200 for six years, and is now at training with jet blue for the Airbus....

Another flew the BE-350 for five years, and in January 08, takes over as director of safety, for a 135 on demand with about 50 pilots...His starting salary is 70k.

I have another buddy who has flown a 200 for maybe 15 months, and is now moving into a Gulfstream I, with the potential to move into a G-III in the next couple years....oh yea, his only TPIC time was in a King Air...

If i were you, I would take the King Air hands down...in fact....I did!


ps (edit)...I just re-read this post and I realize gramatically, it makes no freaking sense what so ever lol...I've been awake since 3 am and flying since 4:30...i'm officially delerious.....time to sleepy

 

[NJA_Capt]

There are no long term pros to flying a little turboprop.

A lot of us would say the same about the regionals.

Pros to a King Air:
Much more personal type of flying.
Turbine PIC
More hands on. Actually doing the flight planning and not having it handed to you.
Home almost most every night (KAs don't fly far, usually out and back)
Real food in real restaurants. No Micky Ds in terminal C.
No stand up overnights.
Wide screen Satellite TVs in real pilot lounges.
Better hotels
Clean plane that stays in a clean hangar
More opportunities for networking for that future corp job
Spouse riding with you on trips
Crew cars
Atlantic bucks
Avtrip
Otis Spunkmeyer

The Kingair is simply not a career destination,
it's not too hot a stepping stone either.

Disagree

See, when the rich dudes decide the don't want a Kingair anymore and let you go

Disagree. I know quite a few that have upgraded from there to bigger and better things. Ever heard of Bank of America? I remember when they had a pair of KA200s.

you're going to think you're ok with all your Kingair Turbine PIC time, until you're sitting in an interview group for a major 121 outfit

Disagree

Where does that leave you? Nowhere. You go from $60,000 a year to zilch, with no prospect of doing much better than half that.

Just like getting furloughed from an airline...... $150k to $0.

Then you're either back at the regionals, or back flying on-demand freight,

Just like the furloughed airline guys

Regional Cons:
Previously reported, No change
Same speed as a King Air (HaHaHa...couldn't resist )

 

[tinman]

:yeahthat:. Another thing to consider, many people put way too much value on travel bennies. Some use the crap out of it, but you get married, have kids, etc., they get harder to use. How many tickets can be bought for $20,000 dollars if you take the higher paying job?

 

[tinman]

Just to make sure you didn't miss NJA Capt's post, read it again!

Don't be fooled into thinking that you can't be furloughed just as quick as an owner can sell his plane. Just saying both can happen.

 

[wheelsup]

Travel benefits are pretty much worthless IMO. We are buying tickets to go home for Xmas. $800. It hurts, but only I can ride up front, and we need to get to the same place at the same time.

If you are married, you both need to have time off to make use of them, and with most people's jobs having 10 days off at a time isn't very realistic except for maybe once a year.

Also, ricecakecm, excellent post, I enjoyed reading it.