AMR to Divest American Eagle

Yeah. You don't go from the Regional Capt. seat to a major Capt. seat. You've got to be an F/O first. And F/O pay is a LARGE cut from Regional Capt. pay.

There are a lot of guys who don't see the benefit of backtracking for 8-10 years. That's a lot of lost money they may never make up.

See that, there are benefits to working a low-paying flying gig (ala Big Sky/ Colgan).....You can't wait to get out! When you move to the Legacy/ Major level....the initial paycut isn't as severe and you're soon making up the difference....even in the right seat in the new job.



Now, while the above is fact......I still want payrates to increase across the board.
 
See that, there are benefits to working a low-paying flying gig (ala Big Sky/ Colgan).....You can't wait to get out! When you move to the Legacy/ Major level....the initial paycut isn't as severe and you're soon making up the difference....even in the right seat in the new job.



Now, while the above is fact......I still want payrates to increase across the board.

Tell that to the stack of guys that I've flown with in MEM that can't afford the cut. How about CAL? I'm a little shaky of being without health insurance with a 3-4 year old for that long. My personal plan is to sock enough away that I can afford to make the jump later on from regional CA to major FO, but there are a lot of guys that can't take the pay cut. So they're trapped.
 
AMR shares drop after brief surge
By TREBOR BANSTETTER
tbanstetter@star-telegram.com
After a brief, one-day surge, shares of AMR Corp. descended rapidly Thursday after some analysts said they were skeptical of the long-term benefits of spinning off American Eagle, the company's regional airline.

Shares of Fort Worth-based AMR, parent of American Airlines (ticker: AMR), closed at $20.81 Thursday, down $1.17, or 5 percent. The sell-off, also spurred by an increase in oil prices, erased most of Wednesday's gains, when news of the Eagle deal had investors buying the stock.

"Honestly, I don't know why they're doing it," said Roger King, an analyst with CreditSights, an independent research firm. "I don't see this as being a great value play" for investors.

American executives said Wednesday they hope to divest Eagle next year. They may sell it to another airline or an investment group, or spin it off as a new public company. The move came after one of AMR's largest investors, FL Group of Reykjavík, Iceland, urged the company to sell off some of its assets, such as Eagle, the AAdvantage frequent flier plan, American Beacon investment firm, or American's maintenance operation.

FL Group specifically called on AMR to sell off the AAdvantage program, which the group valued at $4 billion. AMR executives, however, concentrated on Eagle, which most analysts say is worth $800 million-$1.6 billion.

Analysts worried there are no obvious buyers for Eagle, and the airline could face significant challenges as an independent company. It has higher costs than many of its rivals, and would initially be dependent on a single customer, American. The carrier's fleet is primarily comprised of 50-seat regional jets and smaller aircraft, while demand has been growing for larger, more comfortable 70-seat planes.

"We don't view (the) Eagle announcement as highly relevant," said Jamie Baker, an airline analyst for J.P. Morgan, in a research note. He added that he considers it "best viewed as longer-term earnings neutral."

Eagle's top official outlined some of the carrier's challenges in a letter to employees last January. In the memo, sent the day of AMR's annual earnings report, Eagle president Peter Bowler said, "We have a substantial cost gap versus most of our competitors. We trail our competitors in both (on-time performance) and lost bag ratios, and have too many customer complaints."

He also noted "the regional airline industry is changing rapidly, as mainline carriers award their regional flying contracts to low-cost bidders."

Bowler said Eagle had a 3.9 percent pre-tax profit margin in 2006. That failed to reach a goal of 6 percent, he said, "as a result of higher-than budgeted expenses."

Still, Eagle remains a powerful source of revenue for AMR. Last year, the airline carried more than 21 million passengers, about half of whom connected to American flights, according to Bowler.

"When these customers connected from Eagle to AA, they brought with them $1.7 billion in AA revenue in addition to the $2.4 billion in revenue for the Eagle portion of their trips," he wrote.

Baker said it is unlikely another airline would buy Eagle. SkyWest is still occupied with its acquisition of Atlantic Southeast Airlines. And Mesa Air Group and Express Jet "lack the means to finance, in our view," he said. He also said initial public stock offerings of Pinnacle Airlines and ExpressJet haven't been successful. Still, he said, "Eagle is more likely to be spun (off) than sold to a third party."

It remains to be seen how Eagle's 13,000 employees would fare under an independent company. The airline could be forced to slash labor costs thanks to new competitive pressures with leaner rivals like Pinnacle Airlines and SkyWest. And pilots could lose their traditional career path from Eagle to American Airlines.

Union leaders have said it's too early to gauge any deal's impact on employees.

But untethering the airline could also spur growth through contracts with other airlines. That could mean larger airplanes and a bigger fleet.

American executives say they will honor current contracts with pilots, flight attendants, and ground workers. Eagle has about 3,590 employees in North Texas.

AMR could use the money raised from an Eagle deal to pay down debt or fund pensions. But King pointed out that the airline already has a large cash cushion -- about $5.4 billion in unrestricted cash and short-term investments.

"They just don't need the cash," he said.

Baker suggested a sale could serve as an "olive branch" between American management and its pilots union, currently embroiled in a difficult contract negotiation. American pilots have long fought any growth at Eagle, because of fears that the regional airline's lower-paid pilots will perform flights that otherwise would be flown by mainline pilots.

But people close to the airline said labor issues weren't a consideration.

AMERICAN EAGLE FACTS

WORK FORCE




Total employees: 13,000


D/FW employees: 3,590



OPERATIONS




D/FW flights: 288 daily


Fleet: 305 jets


Average passenger load: 78 percent



SECOND-QUARTER FINANCES




Operating profit: $53 million


Net profit: $12 million


Operating profit margin: 10 percent



Sources: AMR Corp., U.S. Department of Transportation

TREBOR BANSTETTER, 817-390-7064
 
See that, there are benefits to working a low-paying flying gig (ala Big Sky/ Colgan).....You can't wait to get out! When you move to the Legacy/ Major level....the initial paycut isn't as severe and you're soon making up the difference....even in the right seat in the new job.



Now, while the above is fact......I still want payrates to increase across the board.

:yeahthat:

Tell that to the stack of guys that I've flown with in MEM that can't afford the cut. How about CAL? I'm a little shaky of being without health insurance with a 3-4 year old for that long. My personal plan is to sock enough away that I can afford to make the jump later on from regional CA to major FO, but there are a lot of guys that can't take the pay cut. So they're trapped.

Don't feel for them Kell. Not at all. Traditionally, you went from TProp Captain to right seat of a jet. You went from making $40,000 to about $30,000. Part of paying your dues.

They are being EXTREMELY shortsighted if they are worried about taking less than a $30,000 pay cut for only one year.
 
Don't feel for them Kell. Not at all. Traditionally, you went from TProp Captain to right seat of a jet. You went from making $40,000 to about $30,000. Part of paying your dues.

They are being EXTREMELY shortsighted if they are worried about taking less than a $30,000 pay cut for only one year.

Not really short sighted. When I said "can't," I meant "can't." Due to lack of planning, they can't take the cut. They'd lose their house....and probably one of the three cars and the boat. Seriously, though. I know of at least four check airmen here that are in so deep, they're stuck here. One got put there by an ex-wife, and another is on his way there with a future ex-wife. Add kids in the mix, and if you don't plan for a cut like that, you're screwed. Thing is, before 9/11, you didn't HAVE to plan for such a huge cut......

I'm taking it as a "I'm learning from thier mistakes" type thing. I might go out and by an HDTV and a new guitar when I upgrade, but that's a lot different than a $30K car or a boat.
 
And I know where they're coming from...QX. Rumor has it QX is picking up all of the SAS Q400s and dumping the jets.
I'm not so sure we're even getting them now after reading Bowler's announcement that one of the reasons AA's union APA walked away from negotiations (shortly before this announcement) was that APA refused to agree that Eagle had the right to exercise it's option for the additional 25 CRJ-7's.

From what I've seen so far, the atmosphere around Eagle is most definitely NOT "The Sky Is Falling!". It's more like....."wait and see."

Should be interesting over the next year.
 
Not really short sighted. When I said "can't," I meant "can't." Due to lack of planning, they can't take the cut. They'd lose their house....and probably one of the three cars and the boat...

...I'm taking it as a "I'm learning from thier mistakes" type thing. I might go out and by an HDTV and a new guitar when I upgrade, but that's a lot different than a $30K car or a boat.

My First Officer and I were talking about this on our last trip. We said we might get a "semi-large" purchase, like a TV, or an XBOX 360, but no cars, boats, houses, etc. until we are at the majors. He was not young either. We both just knew that we do not want to stay at ExpressJet forever, and we have flown with many guys who have budgeted for the money they make now, and not the money they'll make at their first few years in the majors.

I had been tossing around the idea of purchasing a condo rather than renting, but at this point I think I'm just going to keep renting cheap apartments, driving my Saturn, and dreaming about a boat. Someday I'll hopefully have that stuff, but I'd rather not go back into credit card debt to survive in my first two or three years at a major airline.

It really was a great discussion... Which led into us daydreaming about boats, cars, outdoor kitchens and entertainment centers. :D
 
I'm not so sure we're even getting them now after reading Bowler's announcement that one of the reasons AA's union APA walked away from negotiations (shortly before this announcement) was that APA refused to agree that Eagle had the right to exercise it's option for the additional 25 CRJ-7's.

From what I've seen so far, the atmosphere around Eagle is most definitely NOT "The Sky Is Falling!". It's more like....."wait and see."

Should be interesting over the next year.


Actually, spent some time talking to a guy at the Academy who seems very well versed in this. Makes sense, as he's a check airman..

But anyhoo... his take? The reasons APA balked at the CRJ language in the Letter 3 stuff.. was because it wasn't for specifically 25 CRJs. The language to be inserted was "Eagle has the rights to procure CRJs." No actual limiting number. Decidedly vague.

Seems like an outright attempt at scope busting. No wonder APA balked.
 
My First Officer and I were talking about this on our last trip. We said we might get a "semi-large" purchase, like a TV, or an XBOX 360, but no cars, boats, houses, etc. until we are at the majors. He was not young either. We both just knew that we do not want to stay at ExpressJet forever, and we have flown with many guys who have budgeted for the money they make now, and not the money they'll make at their first few years in the majors.

I had been tossing around the idea of purchasing a condo rather than renting, but at this point I think I'm just going to keep renting cheap apartments, driving my Saturn, and dreaming about a boat. Someday I'll hopefully have that stuff, but I'd rather not go back into credit card debt to survive in my first two or three years at a major airline.

It really was a great discussion... Which led into us daydreaming about boats, cars, outdoor kitchens and entertainment centers. :D

Dude i dont know if your based out of ONT but i swear i thought i saw you walking away from a dark colored (green perhaps?) saturn a couple months ago. I even did a double check but was like Nahh...
 
Actually, spent some time talking to a guy at the Academy who seems very well versed in this. Makes sense, as he's a check airman..

But anyhoo... his take? The reasons APA balked at the CRJ language in the Letter 3 stuff.. was because it wasn't for specifically 25 CRJs. The language to be inserted was "Eagle has the rights to procure CRJs." No actual limiting number. Decidedly vague.

Seems like an outright attempt at scope busting. No wonder APA balked.
That would make sense.....HOWEVER:

Be very - VERY careful with the information you receive from anyone in the training department. They are notoriously misinformed....to the point where they just make up information.

I flew with a check airman from the training department...IN JANUARY of this year and he said (and I quote): "We're getting the additional 25 CRJ's. It's a done deal. Look for an announcement next month."

That was January. We are now almost in December ..... no announcement.

When I was going through sim, the instructors were talking about how Eagle would probably be getting the EMB-170's "within a year or two..."

Like I said.....be very..VERY careful with the information you receive from anyone in the training department. ;) :)
 
That would make sense.....HOWEVER:

Be very - VERY careful with the information you receive from anyone in the training department. They are notoriously misinformed....to the point where they just make up information.

I flew with a check airman from the training department...IN JANUARY of this year and he said (and I quote): "We're getting the additional 25 CRJ's. It's a done deal. Look for an announcement next month."

That was January. We are now almost in December ..... no announcement.

When I was going through sim, the instructors were talking about how Eagle would probably be getting the EMB-170's "within a year or two..."

Like I said.....be very..VERY careful with the information you receive from anyone in the training department. ;) :)

Point taken. So much for 'reliable inside sources'. lol
 
That would make sense.....HOWEVER:

Be very - VERY careful with the information you receive from anyone in the training department. They are notoriously misinformed....to the point where they just make up information.

I flew with a check airman from the training department...IN JANUARY of this year and he said (and I quote): "We're getting the additional 25 CRJ's. It's a done deal. Look for an announcement next month."

That was January. We are now almost in December ..... no announcement.

When I was going through sim, the instructors were talking about how Eagle would probably be getting the EMB-170's "within a year or two..."

Like I said.....be very..VERY careful with the information you receive from anyone in the training department. ;) :)

Its been beat into our heads here at ASA that the 900s are coming:)
 
I had been tossing around the idea of purchasing a condo rather than renting, but at this point I think I'm just going to keep renting cheap apartments, driving my Saturn, and dreaming about a boat. Someday I'll hopefully have that stuff, but I'd rather not go back into credit card debt to survive in my first two or three years at a major airline


Eh, I'd still keep looking into the condo thing. When you're renting, the money is going down a big, sucking drain. When you own, the money's going into equity. Get enough equity and you can get a portion of that money back when you sell if you work it right. It's a pain in the butt just trying to get your deposit back out of apartments. :)

I'm paying less for my house now than I was paying in rent for a 1br/1ba apartment, and that's INCLUDING property taxes and homeowner's insurance. Sometimes owning comes out cheaper. Sometimes it doesn't. It's a lot like picking which regional to work for.....
 
Eh, I'd still keep looking into the condo thing. When you're renting, the money is going down a big, sucking drain. When you own, the money's going into equity. Get enough equity and you can get a portion of that money back when you sell if you work it right. It's a pain in the butt just trying to get your deposit back out of apartments. :)

I'm paying less for my house now than I was paying in rent for a 1br/1ba apartment, and that's INCLUDING property taxes and homeowner's insurance. Sometimes owning comes out cheaper. Sometimes it doesn't. It's a lot like picking which regional to work for.....

That plan which normally would work will not in today's housing market. Better idea to keep your savings in euros.
 
That plan which normally would work will not in today's housing market. Better idea to keep your savings in euros.

Depends on the area you live in. Houses in my neighborhood stay on the market about an average of 2-6 months and are selling for about what they were before. I didn't go for the $250K house, though. I went for the starter home since I knew a) I wouldn't be in it too long term and b) I knew I'd be able to unload it to someone else in a similar situation that I was in.

Now, if I were in FL, I'd agree with you.
 
We were fortunate. We bought our house here in Texas last year for $89.5K.

Put it on the market in September and closed in early November - just over 2 1/2 months - sold for our asking price of $96.5K.
 
Its been beat into our heads here at ASA that the 900s are coming:)

I'd actually believe that. But the question would not be if it's true, but when will they be on property.

Skywest, Comair, PNCL, Mesa, Shuttle America, all have 76 seat jets, ASA is the only one, besides XJT that doesn't.

So, it does make sense that now that the TA has been ratified that the 900's would be coming. Your company would already have 900's, but they were transferred to another company!

So, I'd believe that rumot!
 
I'd actually believe that. But the question would not be if it's true, but when will they be on property.

Skywest, Comair, PNCL, Mesa, Shuttle America, all have 76 seat jets, ASA is the only one, besides XJT that doesn't.

So, it does make sense that now that the TA has been ratified that the 900's would be coming. Your company would already have 900's, but they were transferred to another company!

So, I'd believe that rumot!

I'm actually HOPING that happens. Maybe then management will realize if they want to see real growth here, they're gonna have to settle the contract. They've already said that 16 -900s isn't gonna pay the bills for the program. We should know the results of the strike vote within the next day or two, and if it's what I'm hoping it'll be, I doubt Delta is gonna want to go through another ASA-like service interruption with Pinnacle.
 
Back
Top