Alpa Doesn't Look As Good As It Used To

F

Firebird2XC

Well-Known Member
I think one thing that may be ever-present across the industry is the pilot generation gap.

These days, more and more first officer seats are being filled by younger and younger new hires, while older captains, often a full generation older, are in the left seat.

As the gulf between the understanding of the industry, the current trends, and appreciation for past efforts by labor group also greatly deepens.

Given this, I think what we really need to be concerned about is younger pilots looking at unions like something their father would have been involved in. Since they have the invincibility of youth on their side, "their father's union" might well not be given any serious thought.


I think at this point maybe ALPA needs an image overhaul. Maybe the history lessons provided by Flying The Line Vol 1 & 2 ought to be put out more in the public eye. For the public's understanding, of course, but even moreso for the younger pilots.

I'm sure a great many at recent union drives looked at the Flying volumes and immediately equated them with textbooks. They're probably propping up tables somewhere in alot of cases.


Either way, I think the older generation has to stop being combative and derogatory with the younger. A little more understanding and patience coming from the left seat might make the punks in the right seat ALOT more receptive to what's being said.

On the same note, pilots in the right seat need to wake up and see what's being done to the industry. Don't just look at today- look at next week. Without stepping in to stop the trends before they snowball, we'll find ourselves with one hell of an uphill battle.

Early ALPA victories were cemented by extreme and often deadly events that made actions obvious. Current ALPA attitudes are designed to keep us from backsliding to the point that those deadly and unlivable times ever come back.

If we don't all get on the same damned team AND SOON... it may not matter.

Just .02 from a right seat punk.
I'll see you at the union volunteer office when I'm out of IOE.
 
That is one reason I see places like JC are not only a great resource, but a neccessary resource for inspiring aviators. I think a lot of these new hires are going to learn the hard way about the need for union representation.
 
Well said. . .I was afraid this was going to be one of those "Anti-ALPA" threads that occasionally pop up around these parts.
 
That was a great post. ALPA does need to find a way to become more appealing to the younger generation of new pilots. They need to make it seem like the couple bucks a month in unions dues are worth it. Maybe a huge victory for union pilots that makes the media would help?? All I know is that whenever I mention that I am going to work for a union to my friends, they think it's stupid. Most people don't have a clue and tend to look down on unions, not just in the aviation industry. its pretty sad.
 
Well, the previous Duane Woerth administration pretty much fiddled while Rome burned after 9/11. Made a couple of good speeches but largely missed a golden opportunity to rally the troops and stop management from using the bankruptcy process to set the profession back a few decades.

It was a perfect play though. Mainline MEC after mainline MEC sat there and said, "Well, UAL's going down so we'll all be ok. Don't worry!" Then it was "No worries, no need for any type of unified national action because when (not if) US Airways goes down, it'll help United and the rest of us."

And so on and so on.

Now the new guy's got to get his crap together and bring a highly fractured group back together.

Mainline carriers put the cash up for the operation, but then the regionals have the body count. Please the vast numbers of people or please the folks that represent a vast majority of dues dollars.

I think the challenge is going to be what we're already trying to do here. Educate the next generation of pilots. Management has always been management and wants the lowest costs possible. But there's a lot of people that are in the industry that weren't in it three years ago that may or may not understand what the actual struggle is.

Some of the older generation takes the wrong approach in trying to reach the newbies or even understand the online revolution that's taken place in communications. Some don't want to bother with helping guide the next generation... Most of the older generation simply don't give a crap and are only biding their time, which is a travesty. Most go to work, fly, play golf, and the internet or trying to reach out to others simply isn't on their RADAR.

"What? Type on an internet forum? Are you crazy? Ain't got no time for that!"

It's interesting how I'm only 36 and I'm part of the 'old fart' crowd around here!

Ehh, who knows. We might be able to save it, we might not, who knows.
 
http://airlinepilotcentral.com/professional_articles/tim_connors/airline_pilot_unions_20071031264.html

Linked article said:
Apathy is slowly fading. Volunteers are once again becoming the Captains to their own destinies, with their hands planted firmly on the wheel and their eyes on restoring dignity to the profession that we all work within. It is the next few generations of pilots who will ultimately see the fruits of this new incarnation of the labor movement. It is those young pilots who are just starting out that will become the volunteers of tomorrow, the leaders in the steep, but conquerable, path that lies ahead that will bring back the luster and shine of the professional pilot.
Click to expand...
 
I'm not sure if I agree with that.

I'd love to believe it, but if you look at it in the macro sense, mainline guys are too busy pointing fingers, too many of the wrong folks are in control at that level and we've largely been neutered by the bankruptcy process.

On the regional level, too many folks are busy chasing fast upgrade times and fashionable carriers.

If there was truly a widespread spirit of volunteerism and altruistic visions of improving conditions, you may have seen the union drives at Colgan and Skywest succeed I think.

But I might be out to lunch! :) Speaking of lunch...
 
surreal1221 said:
Well said. . .I was afraid this was going to be one of those "Anti-ALPA" threads that occasionally pop up around these parts.
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Nope. I'm not above baiting the posters with a provocative headline, though.

ALPA needs to evolve.

In the early days, the 'old men' of the pilot population were in their late 20s. They built the union and saw it grow over time. When they ended their careers much later in life, they'd guided it along the way.

ALPA's mission of preserving the profession was easy to maintain because those pioneers WERE the profession.

As the age demographic of ALPA leadership shifted.. apparently so did some of its viewpoints.

Alot of younger pilots look at ALPA the way a young Democrat might look at the Republican party, if you get my drift.
 
Well most young democrats don't bother looking at the republican party. . . :)

What's better, is a good deal of young, democratic pilots looking at ALPA as a quality organization to be a part of, especially when it's one that can protect your career.
 
My God, Firebird. You're going to get the reputation not only as an ALPA Historian, but a rabid Unionista.

You can pretty much forget about working in your Company's training department if you become an active ALPA volunteer. Mostly they like "company" thinkers.

Excellent post. Too bad more youngsters think they know everything about the airline business right out of the box. They could use some time in a cockpit with you.
 
surreal1221 said:
Well most young democrats don't bother looking at the republican party. . . :)

What's better, is a good deal of young, democratic pilots looking at ALPA as a quality organization to be a part of, especially when it's one that can protect your career.
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Oh I agree, don't get me wrong!

And I certainly want to improve the organization. But from my little area of the pond, I still think we're amassing troops to fight a Napoleonic-era battle where the other sides got laser rifles and battle droids.

I guess I'm mostly talking about my own airline's MEC. And I know they browse the forum! ;)
 
Velocipede said:
My God, Firebird. You're going to get the reputation not only as an ALPA Historian, but a rabid Unionista.

You can pretty much forget about working in your Company's training department if you become an active ALPA volunteer. Mostly they like "company" thinkers.

Excellent post. Too bad more youngsters think they know everything about the airline business right out of the box. They could use some time in a cockpit with you.
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Thank ya, sir. Unfortunately, with Letter 3 talks broken off here at Eagle, it'll be a long time before I get a fellow youngster in the cockpit unless he's jumpseating. Upgrade's WAY down the line.

Granted, there are some here that think given flowbacks and their movement in the seniority list that upgrade's about to snap back to three years. Maybe less.

Either way, I actually plan to go to work on the old guys first. If I can show up and be the youngster that listens.. and manage to put a bug in their ears at the same time, maybe I can get something brewing in the captain ranks.

This has to be a unilateral effort, really. Everybody's too focused on their own immediate situations. We need to treat this like troops preparing for battle. Everybody should know the jobs of the pilot senior to them.. and junior to them. One pilot should be as useful to his profession's continuity as three. That way we can all help each other out.
 
Doug Taylor said:
Oh I agree, don't get me wrong!

And I certainly want to improve the organization. But from my little area of the pond, I still think we're amassing troops to fight a Napoleonic-era battle where the other sides got laser rifles and battle droids.

I guess I'm mostly talking about my own airline's MEC. And I know they browse the forum! ;)
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"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter, no matter how advanced."

- Adolph Galland, fighter pilot

The future of the profession belongs to the younger generation. When the torch is finally passed, where we'll actually be in the grand scheme of things depends on how well we prepare ourselves to accept that responsibility.

Even if the movement gets squashed, it may not be for naught. A scant number of men at the Alamo held back thousands of troops for days and days with little more than tenacity at times. Ultimately their post was overrun and the battle lost. Their victory, however, was not in that immediate event, but in the delaying action that allowed the Texan army to regroup and blindside the Mexicans at San Jacinto.
 
So lets get the revolution started.

We've got the bandwidth, the traffic and for lack of a better description, a brand name.

We'll ramp up the mentoring, hold more 'meet and greets', maybe even hit the newbies at the collegiate level to educate them.

Ideas?

Seriously. I think if we take the same spirit of NetworkJC with mentoring, social functions where people can meet one another and the roundtable discussions and broaden it out a few fold, we can probably start making a different in the profession a lot faster.

Talk is cheap, but action drives results, no? ;)
 
Doug Taylor said:
So lets get the revolution started.

We've got the bandwidth, the traffic and for lack of a better description, a brand name.

We'll ramp up the mentoring, hold more 'meet and greets', maybe even hit the newbies at the collegiate level to educate them.

Ideas?

Seriously. I think if we take the same spirit of NetworkJC with mentoring, social functions where people can meet one another and the roundtable discussions and broaden it out a few fold, we can probably start making a different in the profession a lot faster.

Talk is cheap, but action drives results, no? ;)
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I'm never PMing you again!:rolleyes::D:sarcasm:
 
Doug,

I think it's an excellent idea. Personally, I am a little disappointed ALPA hasn't done more to promote itself, the profession, and it's message to the young pilots of today.

However, it is the pilots that make ALPA not the other way around.
 
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