ERfly
Well-Known Member
It was a vote to bring a union on property. It was led by ALPA, but they could have voted for "Other" representation. They chose to vote for no representation, so good-bye SAPA.
QOL @ SKW, now
- Thread starter pilot602
- Start date
It was a vote to bring a union on property. It was led by ALPA, but they could have voted for "Other" representation. They chose to vote for no representation, so good-bye SAPA.
Fins Up
Well-Known Member
Thanks.
bike21
9-5 Ruins Lives
Nope, SAPA isn't going anywhere anytime soon. They might not be much in the way of effective representation but it is all we have for the moment.
Velocipede
New Member
For a new regional F/O, you sure have a lot of opinions. F/O pay doesn't mean squat, its Captain pay that drives the boat.
Perhaps you should just sit there, listen and yank the gear until you dry out behind the ears. Maybe, just maybe, you'll learn something. Come back in 10 years when you have a modicum of experience to back up your opinions.
I'm going to microwave some popcorn...Who wants some? 
ERfly
Well-Known Member
Yes, but you folks (not you, personally) voted that you didn't want representation. SAPA, as you say, IS representation, and therefore not wanted on property.
It doesn't mean squat because you're a captain.
I hate to be there the day you realize the world DOES NOT revolve around you and the airplane you current take up space in.
Regardless, pay across the board between those two companies shows Skywest significantly below jetBlue even at the captain level.
WAFlyBoy
Well-Known Member
Hahahahahaha. Holy cow! I get a kick out of Velo's aggression and anger! It's gotten so extreme as to border on satire! Reminds me of Mr. Anderson from good ol' B&B.
Velocipede
New Member
Ah, another young pup heard from. Its apparent you haven't come to the realization that F/O pay is derived as a percentage of the Captain rate. And that goes for virtually ALL Unionized airlines. Again, its the CAPTAIN rate that determines what you young studs get paid.
<---------->
"Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln
How clever that you left out the part of my post that focused on captain pay.
:banghead:
bike21
9-5 Ruins Lives
Semantics. SAPA certainly isn't too highly regarded, hence a need for change.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
The courts will soon rule that SAPA's current funding and representational structure are illegal. When the courts issue a cease-and-desist on management's funding of SAPA, their will be two choices: fund it from pilot dues (which would be a similar amount to ALPA dues), or dismantle SAPA completely. The SAPA structure that management has come to know and love will likely be gone in short order.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Er....not at my airline. If that's the case, FOs are getting a HUGE raise percentage wise every year. The FO rate jumps $6/hr from year 2 to year 3. CA pay jump $2. We'll just break it down from year to year for a bit here:
year one, FO pay is 38% of CA pay
year two, FO pay is 42% of CA pay
year three, FO pay is 51% of CA pay
year four, FO pay is 55% of CA pay
year five, FO pay is 54% of CA pay
You don't even get a consist percentage until you hit the four to five year mark. So, I guess that means FOs get better pay raises than CAs. For the record, we'll take a look at a major airline based in the pacific northwest and see if the same holds true:
year one, FO pay is 27% of CA pay
year two, FO pay is 47% of CA pay
year three, FO pay is 55% of CA pay
year four, FO pay is 60% of CA pay
year five, FO pay is 64% of CA pay
What do these two have in common? They're both ALPA negotiated contracts. Other than that, I don't see a lot in common percentage wise. Now, if someone can show me facts and numbers that the "FO pay is determined from a percentage of CA pay" theory is correct, I'll go with it. As it stands right now, it doesn't look that way to me. As an FO at the regionals, your pay jumps a lot second and third years. CAs generally don't see huge jumps in pay at the regional level from year to year, so what's to account for the FO pay jump if it's a percentage?
bike21
9-5 Ruins Lives
I agree that this is likely to happen. Fine by me. My feelings on SAPA 2.0 are in line with this very scenario. It will finally be time for us OO pilots to invest in and take part in our futures.
If we can't get ALPA yet, at least we could get a legit (legal) in-house shop with some real teeth.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Kellwolf, what Velo is referring to is actually ALPA's current bargaining strategy. The strategy is to only negotiate Captain's rates, and then to demand that FO rates be 60% of the corresponding CA's rate. Several ALPA contracts have this, and all future contracts will be negotiated on this basis. The last proposal from the PCL Negotiating Committee that I was briefed on before leaving had all FO rates within a few cents of 60% Captain's pay.
aloft
New Member
We dun' call this an ad hominem attack where I come from; it's usually employed when one cannot refute another's assertion with logic and/or reasoning. In essence, rather than speaking directly to what jtrain said, our "esteemed" and "experienced" velocipede instead decided to call him a big fat stupidhead. Is that all you got, bro? Get that weak stuff outta here.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Bingo, but I'm glad it's more obvious than ever.