ERJ Single-Engine Taxi . . .

I know this might sound like a stupid question, but here goes.

How do you Pros know when to Taxi on a single engine? Do you learn this in IOE or does it naturally come to you after you a really familiar with your aircraft.
 
jbail3p said:
I know this might sound like a stupid question, but here goes.

How do you Pros know when to Taxi on a single engine? Do you learn this in IOE or does it naturally come to you after you a really familiar with your aircraft.
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Most of it has to do with engine limitations. In the ERJ the engines need to be running for at least 4 minutes before applying takeoff thrust to a cold engine (one that's been shut down for 90 minutes or longer) or 2 minutes for a warm engine (shut down for < 90 mins). Also, the oil temp has to be at least 40 C before takeoff, so on a cold day you might need to start them a little earlier than 2 or 4 minutes.

If it's the first flight of the day and your taxi is going to take less than 4 minutes, you should start both engines before you begin taxiing. If your taxi is ever going to take less than 2 minutes you should start both engines before you begin taxiing.

Otherwise, you just taxi out on one engine and start the other engine 2 or 4 minutes before you think you're going to be cleared for takeoff. It does take some experience to get a feel for this. I got into some trouble on my fed/ride line check because I had to ask tower to take us out of the takeoff sequence. We were flying in the middle of the day and I did not realize the engines had been shutdown for more than 90 mins. It was fairly cold out, but I started the engines about 2 mins before we were going to takeoff. Sure enough when we got down to the departure end of the runway after a fairly lengthy taxi, the oil temp was still around 30 degrees. I had to ask tower to pull of to the side and allow a few aircraft to cut in front of us. This did not sit well with the guy doing my line check, but after a 90 second delay the temps came up and we were good to go. Somehow I ended up passing the line check/fed ride anyway :bandit: .

As far as what the hydraulic pump sounds like, to me it's similair to a muffled circular saw cutting wood at a high volume. Gives me a headache pretty fast.
 
Alchemy said:
Gives me a headache pretty fast.
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Which is my only issue. The folks paying the bills.

I was deadheading one day last week and had a passenger next to me really, really annoyed by the sound. Like, he's complaining to the FA and wondering what's going on.

If it's operationally needed, then I'm all for it. However, I don't think fuel is going to be an issue on a severe-clear day, with 35 people in the back of a 135 going from CVG to MYR. In fact, I KNOW it's not going to be an issue.

Oh, well . . . just another thing to add to my "When I'm the skipper" list!:D
 
I'm surprised nobody has compared this to the Most Annoying Sound Ever yet.

e6bfdc45.jpg
 
FlyChicaga said:
I've been in the back while the electric hydraulic pump is running, and yes, it is quite annoying. However, with our taxi times, often a single-engine taxi is advantageous. In fact, there are very few times where I will NOT taxi single-engine both on departure and arrival.

If we expect to have a taxi-time that will last longer than 10 minutes, I will start Eng #1 on pushback, since it reduces the noise from the electric pump (already alluded to earlier by baronman). However, if we have a short taxi, I'll just start Eng #2 on the pushback. This way, we can disconnect and send the ramp on their way immediately, so we can taxi away from the gate faster. This saves about two minutes, which often can get us in front of another departure or two, which saves us time at the end of the runway. When you are flying four legs a day, with 30 minute turns, that time can add up... Saving two minutes on pushback, so you get in front of two departures, can save up to ten minutes total. That ten minutes can add up to over 30 minutes of delay by the last leg.

Coming into the gate, shutting down Eng #1 both saves fuel and allows the ramp to start immediately unloading the valet-checked items after we set our brakes. The faster our customers get those bags, they can go on their way, and we can board the next flight. If we are late, small things like that mean we can pull off a 15 minute turn, which can easily get us back on time.

Most importantly, saving 50-100 lbs of fuel by doing a single-engine taxi (or up to 200-300 lbs for a longer taxi) can add up over the course of a month. Since on our "branded" side we pay for our own fuel, I do everything possible to save fuel, while considering safety first. That directly affects our profit sharing.

So... I apologize to our passengers for the three or four minutes of whiny noise, but it is for a good reason... to get them to their destination on-time or early, and to continuously provide a good product.
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A 15 minute turn ! Do you guys go to the head at all ? What about picking up the plane and crossing those seatbelts, or giving your FA a moment to recover from the pax they just waited on? I am all for quick turns, but 15 minutes is a bit much. Are you getting a extra money for doing a 15 min turn. Oh I better stop now! :whatever::mad::(
 
sate said:
A 15 minute turn ! Do you guys go to the head at all ? What about picking up the plane and crossing those seatbelts, or giving your FA a moment to recover from the pax they just waited on? I am all for quick turns, but 15 minutes is a bit much. Are you getting a extra money for doing a 15 min turn. Oh I better stop now! :whatever::mad::(
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Do you get extra money for doing a 45 minute turn that results in a longer duty day then you are expecting?

I don't know what about a fifteen minute turn warrants the "whatever" smiley followed by the "mad" smiley.

By the way - Southwest Airlines can turn a B-737 in less than twenty minutes and it does so every day of the year.

Just some things to think about!
 
Nick said:
Do you get extra money for doing a 45 minute turn that results in a longer duty day then you are expecting?

I don't know what about a fifteen minute turn warrants the "whatever" smiley followed by the "mad" smiley.

By the way - Southwest Airlines can turn a B-737 in less than twenty minutes and it does so every day of the year.

Just some things to think about!
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SWA also has more then one FA and ERJ only has one FA, and I am all for quick turns. But in an ERJ you most likely do 5 to 7 legs in one day. Most CA will look out for their FA anyways. And yes I think a 15 minute turn warrants a "whatever" and "mad" smiley if that's how I feel about it. Yes I know SWA FA's clean their own planes. If you have ever non-rev'd on them, then you know that you should help them pick up the plane. :D

And I have never had a longer duty day because of a 45 minute turn the whole time I was a FA.

And I am not going to get in a pissing contest with you about this because it's how I feel.

sate
 
sate said:
SWA also has more then one FA and ERJ only has one FA, and I am all for quick turns. But in an ERJ you most likely do 5 to 7 legs in one day. Most CA will look out for their FA anyways. And yes I think a 15 minute turn warrants a "whatever" and "mad" smiley if that's how I feel about it. Yes I know SWA FA's clean their own planes. If you have ever non-rev'd on them, then you know that you should help them pick up the plane. :D

And I have never had a longer duty day because of a 45 minute turn the whole time I was a FA.

And I am not going to get in a pissing contest with you about this because it's how I feel.

sate
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15 minute turns are rare but possible if you don't have a full 50 getting off and another 50 getting on. They are not scheduled that way, the shortest they will schedule are 25 minute turns, and that's pushing it if you have a full boat both ways.

As far as helping the FA clean the back, yes, I can and do help on a quick turn. In no way am I obligated to do so, but if you want to get technical, neither is the FA. I have enough pride in the airline to help enure the pax get a relatively clean seat when they come aboard. It's a team effort. When you're running behind you'll need the pilots, cabin crew, gate agents, and rampers to work togeter if you want to get things done on time. The key with the quick turn is getting the passeners into the aircraft. It only takes a few minutes to get things setup in the cockpit, and all that is easily accomplished while the peeps are coming aboard.

5 or 7 legs in an ERJ is the exception, not the rule. Most I've ever done is 5, and even those are rare. My average is probably 3 legs per day with average block times of over 2 hours per leg.
 
Oh, we do 5 legs alllll the time in Cincy - with quick turns.

Here's one I'm doing later this month:

11 NOV V5256 /1109 POS FO DAY 03 REPORT 1050
6268 AZO CVG 1120 1222
6268 CVG TOL 1325 1423
6295 TOL CVG 1450 1552
6295 CVG TRI 1635 1735
6284 TRI CVG 1755 1900
6379 CVG STL 2050 2116
D-END 2131 BLKT 0633 TCRD 0633 TDTY 1141 LYOV 0954 STL

We also have quite a few 7-leg days!

They're not bad at all, really . . . lots of practice!
 
sate said:
A 15 minute turn ! Do you guys go to the head at all ? What about picking up the plane and crossing those seatbelts, or giving your FA a moment to recover from the pax they just waited on? I am all for quick turns, but 15 minutes is a bit much. Are you getting a extra money for doing a 15 min turn. Oh I better stop now! :whatever::mad::(
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It really isn't as big of a deal as you're thinking it is.
 
Baronman said:
Actually...depends on the company. I'm not sure whose ERJs you're hearing but most have a "quieter" APU exhaust stack. But I've been parked next to one that didn't and I agree it was louder than normal and much louder than ours (xjt). The loud ones have a very short exhaust, the quieter ones are slightly longer.
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Yeah, im referencing to CHQ and Mesa ERJ's.

I'm not sure if i've noticed the APU exhaust on an XJT ERJ sounding different.....but then again...maybe thats the good point-its that much quieter.
 
The "good ERJ" exhaust is very quiet (relatively speaking). Definately quieter than a CRJ-200. Never been around a "loud ERJ".
 
mtsu_av8er said:
Oh, we do 5 legs alllll the time in Cincy - with quick turns.

Here's one I'm doing later this month:

11 NOV V5256 /1109 POS FO DAY 03 REPORT 1050
6268 AZO CVG 1120 1222
6268 CVG TOL 1325 1423
6295 TOL CVG 1450 1552
6295 CVG TRI 1635 1735
6284 TRI CVG 1755 1900
6379 CVG STL 2050 2116
D-END 2131 BLKT 0633 TCRD 0633 TDTY 1141 LYOV 0954 STL

We also have quite a few 7-leg days!

They're not bad at all, really . . . lots of practice!
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Nice. Yeah, in some ways I don't mind the days with lots of legs. Strangely, the 5 legs days often seem less fatiguing than the 2 leg 7.5 hour days.
 
sate said:
SWA also has more then one FA and ERJ only has one FA
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SWA also has more than just shy of three times the seats of the ERJ....hence the other two FAs. Wanna see crazy? 30 minute turn on a full 737-700 with only two rampers. Yeah, I hate SWA 351 MCO-STL.
 
Daaaanng. I don't think we could have turned a full CRJ with two rampers. I guess you have to consider who I worked with. There was the narcoleptic, the girl that could only lift with one hand, the guy that looked like gumby that had smaller arms than me, weighed 200 and marshalled like he was a bird trying to fly. Oh there was the Station manager that would go on 'bank runs' and pick up a big mac a week after his heart attack. And worst of all there was the lead (who is no longer there) that punishes a kick ass job well done.

I think there was two guys that I could do a 20 minute turn (comair's minimum) full off, full on in 20 minutes. Two out of 30.
 
Yeah, it was me and one other guy. One would hop in the aft bin while the other guy stood at the bottom of the belt loader (cranked up as fast as it would go), offload the bags, put the outbound bags on, then we'd move to the front bin. We'd switch spots (belt loader guy from the aft would be in the bin and vice versa) and do it all over again.

It's just an example of what a motivated crew can do at a company that actually treats its people well.
 
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