Lt. Col Bud Holland (risk taker) R.I.P.........

[MFT1Air]

MFT, I think you are missing the point. He wasn't flying a combat mission. he was doing training runs for an airshow. Pure public enjoyment. Sure, in a combat situation it may be prudent to exceed aircraft limitations to put rounds on target or avoid enemy fire, but that wasn't what was happening here. This guy had a history of exceeding the limitations in non combat situations, being called on it and ignoring his superior's requests that he stop. More so, if I recall from reading the chapter on him he hadn't ever flown any combat missions or if he had, he hadn't flown any in a long time. Mostly he was on the airshow circuit because he was a good stick and could push the plane to it's limits. He just had a nasty habit of going past those limits and it eventually caught up with him.

EDIT:

OK, I reread the chapter that discusses this guy. He had been flying the BUFF since he started in the Air Force and was an IP and Evaluator on it. By all accounts he was a good pilot. Towards the end multiple people who flew with him complained about his lack of discipline in sticking to the mission and that he routinely broke regs (both AF and FAR) as well exceeded aircraft limitations. There are 6 document cases in the book including airshows and bombing missions (all practice) where he did this stuff. The scary part is that he instilled this attitude into several junior officers who later were grounded because they attempted to do what he had done.

I agree with you absolutely. . .100%! No ifs, ands, or buts about it, he was in violation of every rule and regulation for peacetime flying the Air Force had documented. No argument from me. Is actions per the regulations made him unsafe; they made him unprofessional and cavalier. To say his actions make him reckless? From the writings and documentation, the opinions within the Air Force flying community were divided, for his flying prowess with a B-52 could not be matched. You're right. Multiple actions of going past limits or altitude restriction violations should have grounded him immediately. I personally wouldn't condemn him as reckless.

His final flight? He made a mistake and misjudged the tightness of his . . . a slight miscalculation I've seen pilots on YOUTUBE videos infrequenty do at Airshows which caused an accident or two. How ironic it seems in retrospect that the probable cause of the stall was attributed to his failure to fly into restricted airspace at the airbase which is why he tightened his turn. Violating that restriction might have saved his crew and his life. . .that time.

 

[TonyC]

I personally wouldn't condemn him as reckless.

That's OK, I'll do it for you. He was reckless.

His final flight? He made a mistake and misjudged the tightness of his . . . a slight miscalculation...

... the probable cause of the stall ...

Slight miscalculation?

Whip out your HP and calculate how hard you have to pull to get vertical lift in a 90 degree bank.





.

 

[RPJ]

Zero vertical lift at 90 degrees. You must be knife-edged, nose above horizon with a lot of thrust to even maintain "level" flight. Pass out from G-loc most likely.

What makes this tragedy even worse was that some of the families of the pilots on-board were on the ground watching as they perished.

 

[MFT1Air]

That's OK, I'll do it for you. He was reckless.

OK, so the jury is split 50/50.

Slight miscalculation?

Whip out your HP and calculate how hard you have to pull to get vertical lift in a 90 degree bank.

Let's see. Where did HE misplace the decimal point to allow him to believe he could perform this maneuver, huh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeX2MHBLwoU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeX2MHBLwoU

Oh, given the fact their actions potentially harmed others, I'm inclined to understand your perspective if you believe they're reckless as well.

 

[TonyC]

Let's see. Where did HE misplace the decimal point to allow him to believe he could perform this maneuver, huh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeX2MHBLwoU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeX2MHBLwoU

Oh, given the fact their actions potentially harmed others, I'm inclined to understand your perspective if you believe they're reckless as well.

If you don't understand the difference between a high performance fighter aircraft and a B-52, there's not much point in continuing a conversation. In the one case, the pilot of the fighter aircraft misjudged when performing a maneuver which was part of its normal repertoire. In the other, the pilot of the B-52 was trying to make the airplane do something it was never designed to do, and had no business doing.





By the way, you posted two links to the same video.




.

 

[cTnT1786]

From what I have read a few months ago he was recklass pilot. He made several passes over a mountian ridge (shown in video) where at one point he was bout 30ft from the ground. He did this photo-shoot without authorization.

Yes he did do many recklass manuvers in a bomber! And he paid for it, unfortunately with the lives of other crew members. He pulled many steep turns pushing the b-52 to the edge and back. However, on he pushed to far one time and lost control and crashed. The reason for the tighter turn this time was not to show off, but to avoid a restricted airspace right behind the tower. I'm not saying that as an excuse but just to inform you the reason of a steeper turn. He could have easily just avoided that part of the base but he pushed it to the limit.

From what I remember he was a d*** also. While he was taking place at that photo shoot a crew member was yelling at him to pull up and that he is too low. He just quieted him up. That same crew member was suppose to fly with him at the practice where he crashed but the member complained to his superior. The superior had said that none of his crew will fly with him unless he feels comfortable. So on that day the superior took the place of the one crew member.

 

[captainflyguy]

WOW....I just want to comment on a few things here and basically provide a little more clarity to define the scope of my observation.... 1. from the looks of the video it seems that he had a significant amount of flap deployed (at least 15% or maybe even more) 2.As a casual onlooker I was not aware that he was actually attempting to avoid restricted airspace (of all things):banghead:.MFT1AIR is an ex air force guy so I presume that in that regards he would have a lot more of the "scuttlebutt" so to speak on this guy than I would (ex-marine aviator).When I casually made a comment on his delusional bravery,stupidity,or just plain idiocracy for even thinking; let alone atempting something like that; I was simply trying to convey how unimaginable this type of activity is to a person like myself;who unequivocally respects the airline industry aircraft,aviation,and the pilots and crewmembers which work around them. Let me make myself clear here...,I mean you dont have to be smart as a tree full of owls to understand this guy was a person who lacks judgment or sense when it pertains to flying ability.ANY individual who chooses to handle or play with aircraft idly or carelessly is nothing more than a fool! NUFF SAID!

 

[MFT1Air]

If you don't understand the difference between a high performance fighter aircraft and a B-52, there's not much point in continuing a conversation. In the one case, the pilot of the fighter aircraft misjudged when performing a maneuver which was part of its normal repertoire. In the other, the pilot of the B-52 was trying to make the airplane do something it was never designed to do, and had no business doing.





By the way, you posted two links to the same video.




.

Oops, a small miscalculation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Phm6OIY1ukE&mode=related&search=

Let's see:

If you don't understand the difference between a high performance fighter aircraft and a B-52, there's not much point in continuing a conversation.

:banghead: That's not the issue. The issue is a pilot pressing the limits/boundaries of an aircraft. This seasoned, experienced - having flown this aircraft over 21 years, chief instructor pilot, not knowing if he's a test pilot or not, misjudged his rate/angle of turn and stalled the airplane. He did not have enough altitude to recover. That doesn't make him reckless.

My many years observing what B-52s, B-1 bombers, C-130s, C-5, C-17s at Edwards Air Force Base, reveal to me how pilot train and test the limitations of aircraft to maximize their capabilities. In this accident, doesn't appear as if he made a conscious effort to go beyond the limitation; looks as if he misjudged his turn because of the restricted airplace limiting his maneuver.

. . . but again, if you, as a former/current military or civilian test pilot, say that he based upon his history was reckless, I'll concede that as valid opinion from an experienced source. For me to say that, I would be, like a few others, be offering my opinion as a MMQB.

 

[TonyC]

My many years observing what B-52s, B-1 bombers, C-130s, C-5, C-17s at Edwards Air Force Base, reveal to me ...


. . . if you, as a former/current military or civilian test pilot, say ...

Oh, I see. You watched test pilots, and my opinion doesn't count unless I am a test pilot.


Gotcha.



Nevermind.


:banghead:





.

 

[cTnT1786]

That's not the issue. The issue is a pilot pressing the limits/boundaries of an aircraft. This seasoned, experienced - having flown this aircraft over 21 years, chief instructor pilot, not knowing if he's a test pilot or not, misjudged his rate/angle of turn and stalled the airplane. He did not have enough altitude to recover. That doesn't make him reckless.

Finding out an aircrafts boundries by pushing it to the limit is not reckless in my opinion. But where and when you do can result in being reckless. He was on a practice run for an airshow. Do you think that is safe to do when you have a crowd of people? Plus he has been flying a B-52 for years (as shown by the video). Don't you think he should have already found the limitations on his aircraft?

There have been a few complaints about him regarding his reckless flying such as passing that mountian cliff by only 30 feet. People did not want to fly with him. Doesn't that say something right there?

 

[MFT1Air]

Oh, I see. You watched test pilots, and my opinion doesn't count unless I am a test pilot.

Gotcha.

Nevermind.

:banghead:

.

It counts; I understand you completely, and I'll not argue contrary to your perspective either. Unless the individual is Hitler, Saddam, or that mentality of individual, I'm inclined not to speak ill of the dead. He wasn't a bad guy; he simply got caught up in his own hype.

 

[derg]

I think I'd say it was the military equivalent of "Dude, 4-1-0 it".

It doesn't mean he wasn't a great pal, a good husband or a tax evader or anything personal.

I'll talk to one of the former buff drivers at work this weekend and see what their views are, but I seriously doubt if any would say, "Oh hell yeah! We did this regularly"