Log ME dual-received as PIC?

You guys make it sound like it's some tooth pulling activity to take another checkride.

I can see where in a Part 61 environment, it wouldn't be worth it. . .fine.

But, if a Part 141 CMEL initial program, especially if you plan on instructing at the same place, ME PIC time is golden, not only for an MEI add-on, but also for a companies insurance minimums. Which, is my situation. I'll meet, if not exceed the insurance minimums to be a MEI at the school, meaning, that if I wanted to, I could actually become a MEI, and have ME students before some of the instructors whw may have been there longer, but lack the time in type for insurance minimums. Which, isn't my problem.

So - hey, do as you wish. It's certainly not a requirement, but I'm glad my instructor was looking out for me and found me competent enough to take, and pass another checkride, and build up the golden PIC time for the company.
 
kellwolf said:
IMO, taking the PMEL right before the CMEL ride just to get some ME PIC IS a waste of $$$. For one, you're shelling out the money for the checkride, and that could be anywhere from an extra $250-500 right there. Second, you can time build that stuff in a SE, which is cheaper. Oh yeah, and the instructor doesn't have to be there, making it less. If the only reason you're doing it is to get ME PIC time, it's not worth it, especially in today's hiring environment.
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Totally agree on the time building in the SE and the price difference, brother. On the PMEL, I was referring to getting the PMEL within the first 10 hours of training for the CPL. In the 141 program that I was in, and from what it sounds like, the program that surreal is in, the first 55 hours of the 141 CPL program is in the twin. And, the initial CPL is done in the twin. This works out very well for VA bennies, as they pay 60% of the bill. With the going rate of a twin being around $250 per hour (both with and without an instructor) that works out to around $100 per hour back to the student. Which, when compared to the average joe paying $125-$150 per hour for a 172 for time building, that is a pretty good deal. The only way that you can timebuild with part 61 and get the $100 per hour is to share the time as a safety pilot with that person...which of course is a loophole that I fully endorse. :) I just left a 141 program and am switching back over to part 61 for the last 50 hours....and doing the safety pilot thing for the additional twin time to finish my CMEL.

Make better sense now? I had the feeling that you weren't in the know on a lot of the newly VA bennie geared 141 CMEL programs that have sprung up like crazy within the past year.
 
surreal1221 said:
=

But, if a Part 141 CMEL initial program, especially if you plan on instructing at the same place, ME PIC time is golden, not only for an MEI add-on, but also for a companies insurance minimums. Which, is my situation. I'll meet, if not exceed the insurance minimums to be a MEI at the school, meaning, that if I wanted to, I could actually become a MEI, and have ME students before some of the instructors whw may have been there longer, but lack the time in type for insurance minimums. Which, isn't my problem.

So - hey, do as you wish. It's certainly not a requirement, but I'm glad my instructor was looking out for me and found me competent enough to take, and pass another checkride, and build up the golden PIC time for the company.
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Honestly, it depends on the 141 program. Remember, each one has a different syllabus, and each school has different insurance mins. If that works for your school, great. If I had done that at Skymates, it woulda been a waste of cash. I started instructing in the Nole with about 15 hours of ME PIC, which was the bare minimum after getting my MEI pretty much.
 
Yup, and the Seminole has been around for a while. :) My twin hasn't. And, not too many people have much - if even the 50 hour PIC time for insurance minimums - time in type.
 
Ok, sorry for hijacking, but can an instructor log dual given while riding along with a student "performing the duties of pilot in command"? Is he actually instructing or just sitting there with his mouth shut to satisfy insurance?
 
PanJet said:
Ok, sorry for hijacking, but can an instructor log dual given while riding along with a student "performing the duties of pilot in command"? Is he actually instructing or just sitting there with his mouth shut to satisfy insurance?
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Are you talking about "dual given," which no FAR gives rules on logging, or logging PIC as an instructor?

I'd say the CFI can log PIC. That's because, even though on this "pretend" solo, the CFI is a "pretend non-entity" he is in fact exercising an instructor privilege:

==============================
10 hours of solo flight time in a multiengine airplane or 10 hours of flight time performing the duties of pilot in command in a multiengine airplane with an authorized instructor
==============================

and 61.51 says

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An authorized instructor may log as pilot-in-command time all flight time while acting as an authorized instructor.
==============================
 
Agree with Midlife. The CFI is still a required crewmember and the only one technically legal to act as PIC in the aircraft since the student isn't rated in category/class.
 
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