Thank You, AA - (story)

Velocipede said:
But, reality sucks sometimes and you fledglings need to know the down side of what you're getting into.

Of course, a couple months of shortcall Reserve with 10 days off or a line of CDOs that make you so exhausted all you can do on those 10 days off is sleep and you may have a slightly different take on the "grand adventure."
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Dear future airline pilots:

The above statement in quotes is - (and read carefully) - Complete Garbage.

I've been at American Eagle for a year and a half (a little longer than the "couple of months" mentioned above) and I am still on "shortcall reserve" (two hour call out if you're at home).

I can personally tell you that sitting on reserve - at home (or in your crash pad) - ROCKS on the days you don't get called. Why? You're basicall off with pay (albeit very little pay).

If you live in base, you're home with your family/Significant other/Cat/Dog/Playing Golf.

If you live in a crash pad, you just hang, go to the mall, see a movie, play golf - so long as you are within two hours of the airport.

No big deal.

Generally, four day trips wear you out. But that's no different than any line-holder out there. Matters not whether you are on reserve or holding a line. Flying four days in a row (or more) with 3 to 5 legs (or more) each day - will wear you out. It's part of the business.

But, then again - preparing for three months straight for a major trial at a law firm with no weekends off to speak of, 15 hour days during trial, etc., will wear you out just as much.

So pick your poison.

Reserve is what you make of it.

Flying the line is what you make of it.

Being in any profession is what you make of it.

Take the bad with the good and make your own decision.

Like I said earlier: If you go in to work each day with a piss-poor attitude, you will have a piss-poor day, every day.

This profession rocks if you can cut through the negativity and the whiners and the bitterness (which, btw, exist in any profession).

Enjoy the ride. If not... get off. It's that simple.

R2F
 
I really did not expect this thread to go this long, but I am pleased that the discussion has been relatively civil and that a little inspiration goes a long way. I'm glad sharing the story was helpful to some of you.

Velocipede - for what it's worth - I do appreciate the counterpoints that you bring to the discussion, if for no other reason than it gives me a fairly concrete example of what can potentially be out there to greet me. Thanks for being straight with me on your thoughts and opinions about the field.

I may be a fledgling pilot, but I'm hardly a starry-eyed noob, as it were. I may not be as old as some of you, but I've a set of valid experiences - some auspicious, some dire - under my belt and a fair amount of mileage to base my decisions on. And one of the things I've learned is to listen to the people who've been there.

So - thanks to all of you - and that includes you, Velo - for shooting straight. I appreciate it.
 
killbilly said:
I really did not expect this thread to go this long, but I am pleased that the discussion has been relatively civil and that a little inspiration goes a long way. I'm glad sharing the story was helpful to some of you.

Velocipede - for what it's worth - I do appreciate the counterpoints that you bring to the discussion, if for no other reason than it gives me a fairly concrete example of what can potentially be out there to greet me. Thanks for being straight with me on your thoughts and opinions about the field.

I may be a fledgling pilot, but I'm hardly a starry-eyed noob, as it were. I may not be as old as some of you, but I've a set of valid experiences - some auspicious, some dire - under my belt and a fair amount of mileage to base my decisions on. And one of the things I've learned is to listen to the people who've been there.

So - thanks to all of you - and that includes you, Velo - for shooting straight. I appreciate it.
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KB, I certainly wasn't suggesting YOU were starry-eyed when I made that statement to Velo. It was just a generalization for younger people excited about aviation.
While I don't actually know you, I've read enough of your posts to know you do your homework regarding this industry. You, are certainly not noobish. :) Sorry if you thought I was talking about you....'cause that's just not the case.
 
killbilly said:
I really did not expect this thread to go this long, but I am pleased that the discussion has been relatively civil and that a little inspiration goes a long way. I'm glad sharing the story was helpful to some of you.

Velocipede - for what it's worth - I do appreciate the counterpoints that you bring to the discussion, if for no other reason than it gives me a fairly concrete example of what can potentially be out there to greet me. Thanks for being straight with me on your thoughts and opinions about the field.

I may be a fledgling pilot, but I'm hardly a starry-eyed noob, as it were. I may not be as old as some of you, but I've a set of valid experiences - some auspicious, some dire - under my belt and a fair amount of mileage to base my decisions on. And one of the things I've learned is to listen to the people who've been there.

So - thanks to all of you - and that includes you, Velo - for shooting straight. I appreciate it.
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Finally, someone who actually GETS it! You may not agree with what the seniors on this forum have to say, be it aviation-related or not, but you should listen and then make your own INFORMED decisions based on all different points of view, not just the ones you agree with. Thanks! ;)
 
ready2fly said:
But, then again - preparing for three months straight for a major trial at a law firm with no weekends off to speak of, 15 hour days during trial, etc., will wear you out just as much.

So pick your poison.
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Can I get an AMEN!!? Seriously, it is my continuing suspicion that a lot of the people who complain most bitterly about how awful aviation is haven't had professional-level position in any other industry. It's the same crap everywhere. Just a matter of which $#!^ sandwich you'd most like to dig into. For me, I like the idea of having a job where I get to do something and where the view out the window is constantly changing. Plus, the idea of being done with work when I walk out the door has great appeal (my work is never, ever done; there is always something I could or should be doing and always something to stress about not doing.)

Now if only the paycut wasn't on the order of 80%. :insane:
 
Velocipede said:
In the mean time when guys who have been flying airliners since you were tots enjoying the original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles try to enlighten you, you might take heed.

Close your mouths, open your ears and you just MIGHT learn something. However, given the propensity for young guys to "know it all" I'm probably wrong. :banghead:
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Then there are those of us who HAVE been doing this as long (or longer?) than you have, who still have a lot of enthusiasm for this industry...
 
You know what, Cruise, I do remember the young dragon. He learned a planeload from the "old guys". He listened when they talked about the mistakes they had made in the hangar flying sessions.

He was in a reserve squadron and listened intently when the Reservists who were airline guys talked about their careers and how to avoid the mistakes they made.

You can garner an awful lot of experience listening to the old heads, or you can go out an "live" your experience in the bottom of a smoking hole (literally OR career). You make the choice.
 
ready2fly said:
Dear future airline pilots:

The above statement in quotes is - (and read carefully) - Complete Garbage.

I've been at American Eagle for a year and a half (a little longer than the "couple of months" mentioned above) and I am still on "shortcall reserve" (two hour call out if you're at home).
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Well, Mr. "I've been an airline pilot for a year and a half", we're still waiting for your "correction" on your statement that there are no AA pilots on furlough. I guess your "edit" didn't make it to this thread. Just for everyone's info, there are about 2,400 AA pilots currently on furlough.

And our buddy here is having the time of his life sitting at home and getting paid welfare wages. Good for him. If I were a new guy, that's whose advice I'd listen to...someone with less than 500 hours of airline flying. Yep, he's the man.
 
Cruise said:
KB, I certainly wasn't suggesting YOU were starry-eyed when I made that statement to Velo. It was just a generalization for younger people excited about aviation.
While I don't actually know you, I've read enough of your posts to know you do your homework regarding this industry. You, are certainly not noobish. :) Sorry if you thought I was talking about you....'cause that's just not the case.
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Nope, I didn't infer that at all. No worries. :)
 
Velocipede said:
You can garner an awful lot of experience listening to the old heads, or you can go out an "live" your experience in the bottom of a smoking hole (literally OR career). You make the choice.
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Velo,

Seeing as how you are very much an old aviation head compared to me, I would really appreciate it if you'd take the opportunity in this thread to do exactly that: would you mind sharing a mistake or two you made in your career that you'd advise a young a pilot to avoid making? And how? This is the kind of stuff - first-hand knowledge - that goes a long way for me.

One of the reasons I buy pilots a lot of lunches is it's a quid pro quo - food for knowledge. I'll even feed ya beers and food if you'll let me know when you're in Dallas. :)
 
WildCougar said:
Finally, someone who actually GETS it! You may not agree with what the seniors on this forum have to say, be it aviation-related or not, but you should listen and then make your own INFORMED decisions based on all different points of view, not just the ones you agree with. Thanks! ;)
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Just to be clear - I've not disagreed with any of the advice I've received on these forums from any pilot because I have no real basis for comparison. But I do like having the information to process when it becomes relevant to whatever decision I'm going to be making at given times.

Eh. Strike that. I've received advice about doing primary in various places (the old academy vs. FBO debate) and I'm leaning, actually, toward the flying club method at the moment, but that has more to do with my personal situation than anything else. I guess that's not really agreeing or disagreeing, but rather considering relevant factors.

I think of it as adding tools to the toolbox, so to speak, and when something comes up, I'll have enough wrenches and screwdrivers to figure out the right way to do it. Make sense?

And thanks. :D
 
Velocipede said:
Well, Mr. "I've been an airline pilot for a year and a half", we're still waiting for your "correction" on your statement that there are no AA pilots on furlough. I guess your "edit" didn't make it to this thread. Just for everyone's info, there are about 2,400 AA pilots currently on furlough.

And our buddy here is having the time of his life sitting at home and getting paid welfare wages. Good for him. If I were a new guy, that's whose advice I'd listen to...someone with less than 500 hours of airline flying. Yep, he's the man.
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Wow. Quite the mature response. Bravo.

Doesn't make your statement that being on shortcall reserve any less bogus, now does it.

But, hey - you've insulted someone. Hope you feel better about yourself.
 
I grew up around airplanes. I ran into the wing of a corporate jet when I was 5yo and cracked a tooth...still loved airplanes.

Started flying when I was 16 and still hadn't soloed after a year and 24 hours logged...still loved airplanes.

Sometime during my first year of flying lessons had a root canal on the tooth that I cracked when I was 5...still loved flying

Had a horrible first year in the AF...still loved airplanes

Got out of the AF after 4 interesting years, took forever to get a multiengine rating because of finding an aircraft and instructor. At one time was on a waiting list at a university for a year...still loved flying

Scheduled my initial CFI for Sept 11, 2001...nuff said...still loved flying even after 100 hours dual given during the next YEAR

Got a part-time job in the right seat of a King Air 200 after cleaning it on 3rd shift for a year and a half. This ultimately didn't work out as anything more than experience. Managed to scratch up 30 hours PIC when we flew empty. Didn't get hired full-time because of my low time and Iraqi Freedom...still loved flying

Flew jumpers on and off for 3 years and never really got any turbine time out of it though that was what I originally intended. Originally didn't have the total time for it and didn't have the freetime to do it later on...still loved flying

FINALLY got a full-time job flying freight and was fired after 8 months and numerous disagreements with management and a select few in the training department and the line...still loved flying

Been at a 121 outfit for almost a year now...and



you guessed it...



I still LOVE flying.

You can put me down as someone who loves his job, killbilly :D
 
Velocipede said:
You know what, Cruise, I do remember the young dragon. He learned a planeload from the "old guys". He listened when they talked about the mistakes they had made in the hangar flying sessions.

He was in a reserve squadron and listened intently when the Reservists who were airline guys talked about their careers and how to avoid the mistakes they made.

You can garner an awful lot of experience listening to the old heads, or you can go out an "live" your experience in the bottom of a smoking hole (literally OR career). You make the choice.
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Absolutely agree 100%. Like I said previously, I wasn't disagreeing that youngin's need to listen more than speak.

Instead, I was suggesting not EVERY post be filled with noob-crushing reality. That's all, nothing more. I'm sure you have a great deal of aviation-wisdom to share.....and along those lines, I'm certain not all of those experiences are negative. :confused:

Tell us a bit about the positive aspects of Velo's career. :)
 
KB, I'm happy for you that those guys treated you the way they did. Things at AA are pretty bad, so its good of them to treat their customers with respect and share a little aviation passion with someone.

Unfortunately, the industry does have its pits and downfalls. I think the thing to remember is that the same things can happen in other industries. If pilots stick together, unite and try to make things change, we stand a good chance.

While there are things my company does that piss me off, and sometimes I complain alot about that, I love my job and wouldn't leave the industry unless I absolutely had to. I've worked a lot of jobs up to this point and believe me, being an airline pilot is awesome. Folks that are considering careers in the industry just need to be made aware of the "reality". I just think its important to "choose your employer" wisely. ;)

Although I think Velo comes off as being harsh, what he says is the unfortunate reality. But when life hands you lemons, you make lemonade. Not go around cursing the guy that gave you the lemons. Translation - Yeah the industry sucks compared to what it was. But you can either accept that, keep a positive attitude and join others to fight back (by not taking jobs at places like Go-jets or Jetblue), or just get out of the industry and fly a desk.
 
Airdale said:
Although I think Velo comes off as being harsh, what he says is the unfortunate reality. But when life hands you lemons, you make lemonade. Not go around cursing the guy that gave you the lemons.
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I hope my post passed on this message as well. I have read a lot of Velo's posts, I hear his and others frustration. I hope to learn from them all. I meant no disrespect to Velo.
 
What a moment huh? One day you'll be the the guy up in front and maybe just maybe will get to be the inspiration for the flying life.

Awesome!
 
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