Funny Jumpseat story.......

Actually, the guy who should have done the disciplining was the Xjet Captain. He should have told the jerk that he was giving the cockpit jumpseat to Calcapt and left the guy behind.

That way Calcapt wouldn't have been put in the position of having to "educate" an offline jumpseater.
 
jtrain609 said:
You've gotta be Catholic.

'Cause now listen, I know Catholics, 'cause I am Catholic and I used to have the same problem! But bro you gotta get with the real message and not all this unbridled punishment! People make mistakes man, we should take opportunities to educate and correct people instead of just punishing them.
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Agreed upon 100 percent. Great job Calcaptain!!
 
Velocipede said:
Actually, the guy who should have done the disciplining was the Xjet Captain. He should have told the jerk that he was giving the cockpit jumpseat to Calcapt and left the guy behind.

That way Calcapt wouldn't have been put in the position of having to "educate" an offline jumpseater.
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Again, why all the hate?
 
What is your problem, jtrain? People have a differing opinion and you immediately classify it as hate. What's up with that? Or is it just a tactic to minimize an argument you have no answer for? This seems to be a "card" frequently played in the media these days.

Disciplining someone by taking away a privilege doesn't qualify as hate. You obviously don't have children. That is often the most effective way to make a point.

Considering this further, if the Xjet Captain didn't want to "explain" the error of the jerk's ways, he should have at least referred him to Professional Standards and the Jumpseat Committee.

Again, it shouldn't be up to Calcapt to "educate" anyone. Unions have processes to take care of this kind of interpersonal conflict.
 
Nope, I don't have kids.

But you've obviously never been an educator.

EDIT: Ok sorry, a little bit more of an explanation.

This whole negative reinforcement thing that you keep talking about doesn't work. It doesn't educate, it doesn't teach and all it does is breed disdain and hostility toward the person that's bringing it. I get the feeling you're one of the guys that would use a line like, "The beatings will continue until morale improves," but it doesn't work. It never did work, and the system that you were probably brought up in was a horribly inefficient one.

But that's fine, it's hard to break away from the way that you're socialized. I understand that, but simply being a dick to somebody to "punish" them doesn't do much but piss them off and think, "Huh, the next time I see that guy, I'm gonna hose him as hard as I possibly can."

Education beats punishment, and it gets your point across much better.
 
Well, I suggest you answer the first question first: "Why do you always characterize a differing opinion as 'hate'?"

Secondly, I suggest you get your hands on some child psychology books BEFORE you have kids. Otherwise, they're going to be screwed up little monsters GUARANTEED.

P.S. I've probably got more time as a Military IP than your total logbook, sport.
 
Velocipede said:
Well, I suggest you answer the first question first: "Why do you always characterize a differing opinion as 'hate'?"

Secondly, I suggest you get your hands on some child psychology books BEFORE you have kids. Otherwise, they're going to be screwed up little monsters GUARANTEED.

P.S. I've probably got more time as a Military IP than your total logbook, sport.
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Again, negative reinforcement. I'd hate to be one of your students. The teaching concept that you simply yell at somebody until they do what you want is more than out dated and was never very effective to begin with.

And I got all the child psychology I could want as a kid; my Dad is a psychologist.
 
To be real honest, I want to meet this guy. I want to see if he's for real or just an online persona.
 
You don't have clue about my teaching style. And you still haven't answered why you constantly play the 'hate' card. Different opinion doesn't qualify as hate speech, except maybe in your little world.

Actions have consequences, that's the lesson. Calcapt gave the lecture, but didn't award the consequences. That, my friend, is classic enabling. Ask any drug/alcohol counselor.
 
Velocipede said:
And you still haven't answered why you constantly play the 'hate' card.
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If I am not mistaken, there are multiple questions that people have asked of you in "certain" threads that you seem so passionate about that always go unanswered.

...or I guess that is out of topic and it only goes one way with you?
 
Velocipede said:
You don't have clue about my teaching style. And you still haven't answered why you constantly play the 'hate' card. Different opinion doesn't qualify as hate speech, except maybe in your little world.

Actions have consequences, that's the lesson. Calcapt gave the lecture, but didn't award the consequences. That, my friend, is classic enabling. Ask any drug/alcohol counselor.
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Sweet dude. Call me when you get to SLC, I'll take you out for a beer.
 
Velocipede said:
Calcapt gave the lecture, but didn't award the consequences.....
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You know Velo, you and me think alike on many issues. With respect to this jumpseat story, I thought about how I could get even with this guy on at least 100 occasions since it happened. I even remembered this kids name after several months which is untypical of me as I tend to have a hard time remembering the names of the flight attendants working in the back of my plane. To say I was pissed with this guy would be an understatement. But I must admit, when the opportunity presented itself to really get back at him, I just had the "gut feeling" that in this particular case, throwing him off might not be the answer. I would not consider myself a pushover by anybody's standards. I have on several occasions came out of my cockpit seat spitting fireballs and spewing rage at deserving individuals. I just felt that he would learn more from my approach rather than what I so desperately wanted to do with him. Whether or not it was the right thing to do - who knows? I am quite sure however that if I ever needed a jumpseat, and he was the captain, somehow he would see to it that I got on the flight. These type of scenarios are more challenging to me as a captain than actually flying the airplane.
 
I was just thinking about this. If I were in Calcapt's shoes, I would have done what Velo would have. If I saw him walking down the jetway, I'd bust a laugh out loud and say "Sorry dude, but you're not getting on my airplane unless you buy a ticket."

If you let people walk over you, they will do it over and over again. There is a very small percentage of the population that could give two nickels about anybody but themselves. And its that small percentage of the population that can kiss my you know what. But I'm a hot headed Puddle Pirate Sailor.

But calcapt, you did the right thing. The professional thing. Kudos.
 
Being a Captain means sometimes you'll have to make the hard decisions. Sometimes this means setting emotion aside, no matter how difficult, and take the high road. That, my friend, is leadership.

What Calcapt did in this case demonstrated just that.
 
Airdale said:
I was just thinking about this. If I were in Calcapt's shoes, I would have done what Velo would have. If I saw him walking down the jetway, I'd bust a laugh out loud and say "Sorry dude, but you're not getting on my airplane unless you buy a ticket."

If you let people walk over you, they will do it over and over again. There is a very small percentage of the population that could give two nickels about anybody but themselves. And its that small percentage of the population that can kiss my you know what. But I'm a hot headed Puddle Pirate Sailor.

But calcapt, you did the right thing. The professional thing. Kudos.
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I thought arguements should be based on fact (logic) and not emotion. Fact is that we don't know if the "kid" did learn from his lesson and take it to heart.

We also, don't know if he just smiled, nodded to get what he wanted. So why argue over a possibilty?

I'll say this, in my opinion Calcapt did the right thing. Sure he could have barred the XJET kid from jumpseating. But what if the kid remembered him when CC was tryna jumpseat on his plane.

Or maybe he told some friends a terribly skewd story about what really happened, and much like CC remembered the kids name, CC was put on a no fly list with some of the XJT captains friends/co-workers.

This revenge mentality makes me think of the bloods and the crips. Follow me here:

The crips kill T-Loc a blood. Well the bloods then to kill Rawket (a crip) to avenge T-loc.

Then the crips have to kill more bloods to avenge Rawket.

Jeez when would it end?

Samething when it comes to jumpseat revenge.

Sometimes you just gotta make peace with your decsion, and not worry about if the lesson was learned. But just know that you took the opportunity to educate.
 
Something to think about:

"Sometimes HOW you say something can interfere with the message"
 
Sorry, guys, but I don't agree. Just like with kids, if you reward bad behavior, it just reinforces it.

Example: A big line of people at the podium. Up runs Joesh1t the Ragman and says to the agent, "I've just got a quick question." If the agent answers it, that A**hole has just jumped the line, gotten his answer to the detriment of EVERYBODY who is waiting their turn. And, most agents (unfortunately) will answer the question. Now, the behavior has paid off and the next time the A**hole doesn't want to wait in line, do you think he will?

Occasionally, I have seen agents refer those jerks to the end of the line. Usually, they get all huffed up and disappear.

The bottom line is you don't reward bad behavior...in dogs, kids or Xjet jumpseaters. In the case of this thread, that's exactly what happened. Mr. Xjet got to work 20 minutes early. I've got $5 that says the next time someone is waiting for an Xjet jumpseat and he walks up 5 minutes prior to push, the offline guy gets bumped. Why? Because his behavior was rewarded by a "lecture" instead of a consequence...missing his trip.
 
Velocipede said:
Sorry, guys, but I don't agree. Just like with kids, if you reward bad behavior, it just reinforces it.

Example: A big line of people at the podium. Up runs Joesh1t the Ragman and says to the agent, "I've just got a quick question." If the agent answers it, that A**hole has just jumped the line, gotten his answer to the detriment of EVERYBODY who is waiting their turn. And, most agents (unfortunately) will answer the question. Now, the behavior has paid off and the next time the A**hole doesn't want to wait in line, do you think he will?

Occasionally, I have seen agents refer those jerks to the end of the line. Usually, they get all huffed up and disappear.

The bottom line is you don't reward bad behavior...in dogs, kids or Xjet jumpseaters. In the case of this thread, that's exactly what happened. Mr. Xjet got to work 20 minutes early. I've got $5 that says the next time someone is waiting for an Xjet jumpseat and he walks up 5 minutes prior to push, the offline guy gets bumped. Why? Because his behavior was rewarded by a "lecture" instead of a consequence...missing his trip.
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Admittedly Velo, you make a compelling point. I recall watching Cesar Millan, the dog whisperer guy say that dogs learn better from positive reinforcement than they do negative reinforcement. I don't know if there is any correlation with dogs and thoughtless Xjet captains though? Speaking of dogs, it would be hard for me to offer positive reinforcement to a dog that had just pooped on my carpet so maybe your point is valid. I guess the jury is still out on if he learned anything from this or simply got away with something. I will tell you though, if he ever pulls the same thing on me again, not even the Dog Whisper will save him from the wrath of calcapt. :rolleyes:
 
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