Alternate Route?

MJR

MJR

New Member
Hey guys,

Just wanted to pick a few peoples brains on getting a Mulit Crew Pilot License (MPL) versus conventional means of obtaining licenses and certs.

The rational for this method of training lies in: "16000 new pilots will be needed each year for 20 years". They go one to say: "This process (conventional) was developed after the WWII and has not been updated since, regardless with the advancement in aviation technology".

The program is 75,000 USD and is run by Clark Aviation. However all you get a MPL. I’m assuming the other ratings do not 'come with it', and must be acquired at a later date.

This is a 1 year AB IN course, and the price is on par with Flight Safety and Delta Acad.

Here's the Breakdown:

1. Ground school: 5 months
2. Core flying skills instruction: 2.5 months, 70 hours on a SE (Alpha T120, T160)
3.Basic Sim: (Turbine Sim) 2 months, 60 hours
3.Intermediate Sim: (A320) 1 month
4. Advanced Sim: (A320) 1.5 months 60 hours, Level D Sim
5. Base Training: 12 TO and Landings in a A320

So how does this MPL stack up against the rest? Anyone hear of anyone doing this and getting hired?

It’d be great to hear what you guys think about this.

-MJR :yar:
 
Don't do it.

This is a VERY bad thing.

Also you won't be able to find a job in the United States with it. Maybe in Africa or India thats it.
 
Yeah, I'd have to agree w/ Seggy. If you're going to spend $75K.....why not just get the traditional ratings and then you're not limited to a Multi-Crew flying. Besides, unless you're looking to fly overseas....no airline is gonna touch you with that MPL.

You could finish all your traditional ratings for $30 - 40K and not be in as much debt. If you really want to spend that much you could then rent a whole bunch of twin-time as well.
 
The MCPL is not a FAA recognized license.

If you did that course you just spent 75 thousand on a worthless piece of paper. That is if you want to fly in the states.

They are marketing that course for overseas students that will go back to where they came from and fly in countries like India and China.
 
Seggy said:
Don't do it.

This is a VERY bad thing.

Also you won't be able to find a job in the United States with it. Maybe in Africa or India thats it.
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It seems alot of people are leaning to the conventional method only because it does give you real time, it is a longer process, but learning to fly is alot of fun. It also appears that this license is still in testing phase, as only a handful have graduate with with the MPL. However I dont know if they got hired,if they did it was most likely in Aisa.

Other then not getting a job in North America, why is is VERY bad?
 
Cruise said:
Yeah, I'd have to agree w/ Seggy. If you're going to spend $75K.....why not just get the traditional ratings and then you're not limited to a Multi-Crew flying. Besides, unless you're looking to fly overseas....no airline is gonna touch you with that MPL.

You could finish all your traditional ratings for $30 - 40K and not be in as much debt. If you really want to spend that much you could then rent a whole bunch of twin-time as well.
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Very true indeed. Im all for traditional method, MPL just caught my attention and people seem not not like it that much. For 42,000 CDN you can get Private, Night, CPL, Instrument and SE CFI in about 1-2 years.

However if I did want to fly for Aisa/Aus/Eur airlines would the MPL be on par with CPL + hours?
 
MJR said:
Other then not getting a job in North America, why is is VERY bad?
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Students who get these licenses are missing out on a lot of seasoning and experience which comes from spending a hundred or more hours in the plane by themselves. With the multi-crew licenses, these pilots may never have had that time when they alone are responsible for the plane. Most people around here think it is not a good development.
 
I'd be interested to hear why you think it is good?

The way I look at it getting your certificates the normal route doesn't take much longer nor does it cost much more, you can actually fly an airplane and you will have a whole lot more experience when you are done.

I can't begin to imagine how much a brand new MPL student would suck. The example I've used before involves radio work. In a sim, even in a LOFT training scenario (loft=line oriented flight training) where you are working through a given scenario instead of just doing maneuvers, very few people "talk" on the radios. Even if they do, there is only you "talking" to the sim instructor behind you. In the real world, especially in crowded airspace there is a whole lot of stuff going on. I would hate to be the captain who has to take an MPLer into LGA for the first time. Heck, I wouldn't even want to have to walk them through picking up a clearance for the first time from a busy C/D controller. And that's just working the radio.
 
What country are you a citizen of?

The Countries that use pilots with a MCPL, do so to get citizens to be FO's for expat Captains. This is due to labor laws and political reasons. The MCPL pilots are also usually sponsored by their airline and have a VERY lengthy training contract.

So unless you are a citizen of one of those countries you most likely dont have a chance in heck of getting a job over there with a MCPL.
 
BobDDuck said:
I'd be interested to hear why you think it is good?

The way I look at it getting your certificates the normal route doesn't take much longer nor does it cost much more, you can actually fly an airplane and you will have a whole lot more experience when you are done.

I can't begin to imagine how much a brand new MPL student would suck. The example I've used before involves radio work. In a sim, even in a LOFT training scenario (loft=line oriented flight training) where you are working through a given scenario instead of just doing maneuvers, very few people "talk" on the radios. Even if they do, there is only you "talking" to the sim instructor behind you. In the real world, especially in crowded airspace there is a whole lot of stuff going on. I would hate to be the captain who has to take an MPLer into LGA for the first time. Heck, I wouldn't even want to have to walk them through picking up a clearance for the first time from a busy C/D controller. And that's just working the radio.
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Im not saying its good at all, infact it concerns me. It's like a band-aid solution. You get 60 FT hours, that's barley a PPL. Then 150 hours or less on a sim. I think sim is great from a systems standpoint, but only FT time can give the basis of safety and airmanship. It's bad enough that some regionals are hiring at >400 hrs. I full on agree that FT time is the best way to learn to FLY.
 
OldTownPilot said:
What country are you a citizen of?

The Countries that use pilots with a MCPL, do so to get citizens to be FO's for expat Captains. This is due to labor laws and political reasons. The MCPL pilots are also usually sponsored by their airline and have a VERY lengthy training contract.

So unless you are a citizen of one of those countries you most likely dont have a chance in heck of getting a job over there with a MCPL.
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Im a citizen of Canada. Yeah I figured if they have a deep labor pool in those countries, why would they hire from over here. The only reason I can see that an overseas airline would want that person would be experience, which is viewed through logged hours both quality and quanity.
 
I'm kinda curious where they're gonna get CAs if they pass this in the US. They'll have to re-write the ATP mins totally. Might be able to get a waiver, but that seriously scares me. Nevermind the fact that sims only APPROXIMATE the actual flight characteristics of the aircraft. I have to get in "sim mode" here whenever I have to go back to the box. They fly differently and feel MUCH differently.
 
Seggy said:
http://alpa.org/DesktopModules/ALPA...View.aspx?itemid=9076&ModuleId=6602&Tabid=256

Don't do it.

I love how guys have a hard on for 'getting there the fastest'.

It is about the process, learning about aviation, and the fun getting there.

By the way as a citizen of Canada your chance of getting hired with just a MCPL are about nil.
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LOL. Well Like most things in life it is the journey. The tradtional method is much better, you actully get to fly! Id much rather spend 3 hours doing curcuits in a DA 20, then a A320 SIM. I love flying, and I am willing to to take the journey. I will agree that the MPL program is primarily designed for non NA people. I was just wondering what pilots thought about the MPL, just doing some research. BTW thanks for the web page.
 
MJR, this website is about research and learning.

Glad you asked the question, it was a good one and will be a hot topic!

MCPL=not a good thing
 
Plus, with the MPL, if you ever wanted to buy or rent an airplane on your own, you couldn't. So, you could act as a crewmember on a 777, but couldn't fly a 152.
 
kellwolf said:
Plus, with the MPL, if you ever wanted to buy or rent an airplane on your own, you couldn't. So, you could act as a crewmember on a 777, but couldn't fly a 152.
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To me that's insane, what's the point of flying if you cant share a sunday cruise with friends and family. :pirate:. That should be an indication that pilots with MPL are not really pilots, more systems engineers. Hate to say it but you cant teach experience.

If you did get hired with a MPL, how would moving over to the left seat work?
 
MJR said:
If you did get hired with a MPL, how would moving over to the left seat work?
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The only way I can see it working is a waiver for ATP mins that credits X amount of time in the right seat under the MPL towards hours. You'll still be WAAAY under the requirement for PIC time, but even the current regionals have waivers in place for that in order to accomodate the FOs that came from places like JetU and GIA.
 
kellwolf said:
The only way I can see it working is a waiver for ATP mins that credits X amount of time in the right seat under the MPL towards hours. You'll still be WAAAY under the requirement for PIC time, but even the current regionals have waivers in place for that in order to accomodate the FOs that came from places like JetU and GIA.
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Are you saying that its hard to get into an airline with MPL but easy to get to the left seat inspite of PIC reqs?
 
multicrew pilot license here in the United States would be another justification for sub $40k "heavy" FOs...not good at all. Not to mention, as others have said, might as well expend the same amount of money (or less) and the get the real deal.
 
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