Low Time Interview

"THEY had 1200 hours when they were hired, they get a little pissed when they hear about guys getting hired with 350-500 hours."

Yeah, and THEY are the ones who have been around long enough to form an educated opinion. You ain't ever gonna convince me, brother.

"I'm sick of how so many people on this site are so obsessed with equating number of hours with the amount of experience."

Sorry the whole thing bothers you, but I've been around long enough to know better. The more experience the better. Types of experience/hours are important, as you mention, but one thing is for sure, 300 hours isn't enough to be a jet airline pilot. Not in my book....
 
I imagine it's partly a case of "anyone who didn't do it exactly the way I did got it easy" and partly shock when people look back at how little they knew when they got hired. Probably similar to when I look at the lack of knowledge of student pilots it shocks me to realize how little I really knew when I went on my first solo cross country.

Personally I've learned so much as a CFI I couldn't imagine even trying to go to the airlines without having experienced it all. But I'm not about to say "anyone who wasn't a CFI for ____ hundred hours has no place at the airlines (of course no one could say I'm qualified to make that statement anyways). But I'm also willing placing my faith in the airline training departments and the associated FAA oversight to weed out anyone who doesn't belong there. Whether that faith is misplaced...I may find out for myself sooner than DE727 would prefer :)
 
nabd30 said:
Pilot B=500 hours: Got ratings and first 250 at a heavily congested flight school in DFW airspace, 250 dual given to foreign students with poor language skills, filed IFR on all his cross countries and with all his inst. students, shoots approaches, flies DPs and STARs every day.
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Wow. A whole 250 dual given?:panic:
You'd better stay by the phone, NASA should be calling any minute :sarcasm:
 
NJA_Capt said:
Wow. A whole 250 dual given?:panic:
You'd better stay by the phone, NASA should be calling any minute :sarcasm:
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I think his point is that there is a difference between the two examples he gave, not that he personally was god's gift to aviation the day he hit 250 dual given.

He could be wrong. We might all look the same from way up there. If it's true that every 500 hour wonder is a sad excuse for a pilot regardless of what they did for that 500 hours and every person with 1000 hours in a C152 is Chuck Yeager the day they step into a jet...well then there's nothing I can do except work as hard as I can and apologize in advance for making you sit next to me some day.
 
Hey Clocks. More power to ya buddy.

The 300 hour guys are NOT the ones who take the time to gain some valuable experience as a CFI. But rather, take a RJ course instead.

The 800 hours guys are more likely better pilots by honing their skills as a CFI. I'm all for keeping standards as high as humanly possible.

As low as the bar has gone. And as much as the old days brought a better pilot to an entry level airline job. I'd always choose the guy with more time who paid his dues.

Jet airline pilot should NEVER be an entry level job....
 
DE727UPS said:
Jet airline pilot should NEVER be an entry level job....
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:yeahthat:
There should be a 121 min req about SIC time. Just like 1500 for an ATP they should come up with at least 750 to log SIC for 121. Just my feelings and I know many wont agree.

Think back to when you were 13 and look back at yourself. Look at the clothes you wore. Thats how it is when you are a 300 hour pilot compared to a 500 hour pilot compared to a 1000 hour pilot compared............ on and on and on.....

Respect the industy and maybe things will change for the better, hold out and instruct for a year! Get the hours to goto a place that will give you a good QOL, thats quality of life for you newbies. Maybe if more of us started doing this there wouldn't be the MESAs and its poor excuse for an airline Go Jets and some of these 250/50 excuses for airlines that take anyone with a pulse. And just maybe these places would start respecting their pilot groups more. Everyone with 250/50 that go to these places just make other regional airlines think it is acceptable to pay your F/O's $17k a year and have piss poor work rules. Also realize that once you get there and get over the fact you are flying a regional JET:panic: it just becomes another plane, just like the first time you flew a cessna it was awesome but after flying it for 200 hours you start to curse the crappy cessna and want to fly something bigger or faster. It will loose its total appeal and you will realize that you are being treated like arse and I promise you will start wanting more.

Let the flaming begin!! :bandit:
 
WAFlyBoy said:
You're saying it's a fact that 250 hour pilots don't know [instrument] procedures, mins, and DPs well? Where are these pilots coming from? Are they instrument rated? Keep me away from the airlines that hire them!
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I'm currently going through pt121 training for a certain tprop operator. The other day we were practicing mock flights on the CPT(poster of a cockpit). One volunteer sat in front with the instructor to demonstrate. It all went well untill the instructor asked him to pickup the clearance. I #### you not he didnt' konw how to do it becasue the airport he trained at didn't have a clearance delivery, i guess he only used tower at his home airport. The instructor was staring at him. I can only imagine he was thinking about the days when he got on with this comapny and he needed 1500 and 500 hours of multi for the privalage to be at this same job this 200 hour pilot. There are a few people on here that basically have no mutli expereience other than passing their checkride. I'd imagine this is the same for other tprop operators. Street captains don't help either.. 200 hour fo mixed with a 0 experience CA probably don't mix.
 
What about the guys in the 1960's and 1970's? One of my professors was hired by TWA with 220 hrs and flew for 25 years without an accident or incident. Is it impossible to have a low time pilot in a jet? No its not, however, I do agree that it is good to have some experience under your belt first. Before you flame me, you should know that I plan on becoming a flight instructor so that I can build hours to go to an airline with the likes of xjet or skywest.
 
jonnyb said:
That's for sure. There is definitely a huge supply of very low time pilots willing to work for next to nothing.
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Flight instructing pays next to nothing, and has no benefits.
Work for a Regional Airline or Flight instructing? It is a tough decision a for low time pilot.
 
DAS said:
Work for a Regional Airline or Flight instructing? It is a tough decision a for low time pilot.
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It shouldn't be a decision for a low time pilot. I'm glad my company at least makes an attempt at standards...it's difficult to get 1000hrs without taking a role of responsibility in an airplane. At 300hrs? It likely that they've rarely even flown alone.

It's not about bitterness, it's about common sense. All you guys who think it's just fine that 250hr wet comm folks are at airlines, go and find *one* captain, check airman, FAA inspector who thinks this is in any way acceptable.
 
cmsuav8r said:
What about the guys in the 1960's and 1970's? One of my professors was hired by TWA with 220 hrs and flew for 25 years without an accident or incident.
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I love how this one always comes up.:sarcasm:

Did he happen to mention how long he flew the panel? Most of the "60 & 70s" airline pilots flew the first +/- 10 years as an FE. Very few went straight to an FO seat....unless it was in a DC3 or F27. And remember, that was way before CRM and the Captains didn't let FOs touch anything but the radio.
 
"Flight instructing pays next to nothing, and has no benefits."

Flight instructing has great benefits, as do other methods of become a well rounded pilot before getting into the jet.

You're looking at it strictly from a low time, wanna be an airline pilot, financial, standpoint.

High time pilots look at it from a "what can you offer me as an F/O" standpoint.

That these two ways of looking at the problem differ so much at this website, over the years, is not really much of a surprise. I just find it amusing that those who find no fault with low time jet F/O's are usually low time pilots.

Makes a lot of sense, really.
 
DAS said:
Flight instructing pays next to nothing, and has no benefits.
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In this job market, if you are working as a flight instructor and are making next to nothing with no benefits then you are doing so by choice.

Myself and a number of people I know took a significant paycut to go from CFI to 135/regional airline.
 
I dont think Flight instructing is all what its put out to be. I learned alot Flight Instructing private pilot students, But I would say I had a better chance passing an airline Interview Sim After I got done fresh out of ATP where I flew Star's and DP's every day. Now all I do as a flight instructor is watch my students fly circles doing stalls, and slow flight which you dont do in jets.
I guess I should start using my double eye...
 
Fly_Unity said:
I dont think Flight instructing is all what its put out to be. I learned alot Flight Instructing private pilot students, But I would say I had a better chance passing an airline Interview Sim After I got done fresh out of ATP where I flew Star's and DP's every day. Now all I do as a flight instructor is watch my students fly circles doing stalls, and slow flight which you dont do in jets.
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Argh.

You could train a monkey to pass an airline interview sim ride. It doesn't really matter--that's not really where you prove how capable a pilot you are. That happens on the job. The experience you gain as an instructor will be really, really valuable later in your career.
 
jonnyb said:
Yeah, I totally agree with you, 250-500 hour pilots have no business flying a regional jet for an airline.
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JonnyB, right there with ya brother. On a side note if I'm not misstaken I've seen that altimiter in a LR-31... but mine said FL510 ;-)
 
From the horses mouth. Have a friend who heads initial interview sim rides for a regional and its by no means good these days. To spoon feed significantly under qualified beginner pilots through a lax interview to keep airplanes flying the interview ride has gone something like this: day VFR, no wind, both engines working properly, no abnorms/emergencies of any kind, allowed to use all tools AP and FD if desired, take off to clean vectors to a 15 mile final, speed/configuration and checklists for landing get spoon fed, just simply fly the ILS. According to him even getting close to passing this pre-employment airline sim ride is few and far between. Can an applicant get an airplane off the ground and back down in the most perfect of perfect conditions; the out come is as one with open eyes would expect.
 
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