Hired by airline with low hours? Watch out!

[bike21]

or....as it was said earlier just cfi or something and get the 25 and 100...I think I had that before I was done with my ratings...its not too hard to achieve

You certainly wouldn't think so

edit to add:

A) I was astonished when I heard this directly from the person who it happened to!

B) I was even more astonished to learn that it happens more than we think!!!

 

[surreal1221]

The 100 hr XC time requirement, I see it doesn't specify a distance requirement. . .so that it simply falls under the definition of XC from part 61.1 (a landing at an airport other than the departure airport).

Looks like I won't have this same problem - only 11.5 shy XC time wise, and 6.1 shy night time wise.

My how times have changed. You............................nevermind.



Max

Jtrain answered my question, sans any sarcasm. You should try it.

I was under the impression that the ATP time requirements, would have to be done in a 121(or 135) environment. Hence my wondering how in the world a NON-PIC would get the 100/25. But now I know, it's just overall PIC. . .not time in type.

It's not time in type, it's just PIC time in anything.

(BTW I've been meaning to call, I just haven't had a chance to with how busy training has been. Ride is soon, and then I'll have a chance to give you a ring)

no problem, just surprise the hell out of me one of these days.

 

[Van_Hoolio]

The 100 hr XC time requirement, I see it doesn't specify a distance requirement. . .so that it simply falls under the definition of XC from part 61.1 (a landing at an airport other than the departure airport).

Wrong!

§ 61.1 Applicability and definitions.


(3) Cross-country time means—


(vi) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for an airline transport pilot certificate (except with a rotorcraft category rating), time acquired during a flight—
(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
(B) That is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems.

For the ATP, the only exception is that you don't have to land. But you have to have the 50nm.

Mike

 

[surreal1221]

I see, thanks.

Then in that regard. . .I'm 44.2 hours shy, lol.

 

[Velocipede]

How else are FO's suppose to get upgraded then?

Even if they have the hours required for an ATP. . .they still lack the PIC time (since they were only FO's), correct?

Does the ATP require PIC time or just raw flight time? If its just hours, then the SIC time would suffice. We had a guy who hired on in the "olden" days with just a Commercial ticket. He ended up getting his ATP and upgrade with no problem, so I always assumed the ATP only required 1500 hours. When I got mine, it was all military time, over half of which was Aircraft Commander, so I never really paid attention to the requirements.

 

[t-cart]

What am i missing here. I am not a 121 guy,but i thought the x/c requirements for the Atp were 500 hrs. I am not understanding this 100 hrs. Please clarify this for me. Thanks FLY SAFE T.C.

 

[kellwolf]

We've got a waiver here at PCL, but you still need 250 hours PIC time. Honestly, I'd be scared of a guy upgrading with less than that, even if he did play the "hey, I'm acting PIC game." If you get your IR under Part 61, you're half way there anyway. Toss in the stuff for your Comm, and you're even closer. There's really no reason you shouldn't have this stuff before you get your CSEL/CMEL rating. Seriously. I'm talking about the ATP mins for PIC, not the 250 PIC for the waiver. I'm sure as more of our 250 hour wonders get closer to upgrade, they'll revist the waiver.....or try to re-cert them under the MPL or something if they've got it by then.

I'm not a big fan of the "acting PIC" time thing in an RJ. Personally, I think it's skirting the rules on a technicality and totally disregarding what the the FARs intend. If an FO asked me to let him be "acting PIC" on a flight I was CA of, I'd have to laugh. If that makes me "mean" or a bad person, so be it. I don't think I'm pulling the ladder up behing me, and I don't think I'm saying anything like "I did it, so you have to." I'll be damned if I agree to that, there's an emergency in flight and I have a 280 hour FO saying "But.....but....you said *I* could act as PIC!"

 

[surreal1221]

So what about the part 141 guys that end up getting their CSEL/CMEL at 190 hours? Or, in my case, closer to 210 hours.

Once I have a few private students, I'll be up there at the 250 PIC level, but only after that.

But anyway, what the hell do I care. . .I've got a while to go. The 100 hour XC time is only 44.2 hours shy, and the night requirement is almost there as well (6.1 needed).

 

[mtsu_av8er]

I'm not a big fan of the "acting PIC" time thing in an RJ. Personally, I think it's skirting the rules on a technicality and totally disregarding what the the FARs intend. If an FO asked me to let him be "acting PIC" on a flight I was CA of, I'd have to laugh. If that makes me "mean" or a bad person, so be it. I don't think I'm pulling the ladder up behing me, and I don't think I'm saying anything like "I did it, so you have to." I'll be damned if I agree to that, there's an emergency in flight and I have a 280 hour FO saying "But.....but....you said *I* could act as PIC!"

I agree . . . it's the silliest thing I've heard in a while.

Well, that and this whole "Autopilot on at 600 feet" thing.

 

[skidz]

The requirement people seem to be getting tripped up on is the night PIC and cross country requirement as PIC. (25 hours and 100 hours)

I think people shouldn't be even applying for the airlines with less than that. It's good to have this in mind though. I'll make sure I get that before embarrasing myself

 

[mikecweb]

wow

 

[bike21]

Does the ATP require PIC time or just raw flight time? If its just hours, then the SIC time would suffice. We had a guy who hired on in the "olden" days with just a Commercial ticket. He ended up getting his ATP and upgrade with no problem, so I always assumed the ATP only required 1500 hours. When I got mine, it was all military time, over half of which was Aircraft Commander, so I never really paid attention to the requirements.

In these specific examples it is PIC time. It is certainly nice for those of us who never had to worry huh?

We've got a waiver here at PCL, but you still need 250 hours PIC time. Honestly, I'd be scared of a guy upgrading with less than that, even if he did play the "hey, I'm acting PIC game." If you get your IR under Part 61, you're half way there anyway. Toss in the stuff for your Comm, and you're even closer. There's really no reason you shouldn't have this stuff before you get your CSEL/CMEL rating. Seriously. I'm talking about the ATP mins for PIC, not the 250 PIC for the waiver. I'm sure as more of our 250 hour wonders get closer to upgrade, they'll revist the waiver.....or try to re-cert them under the MPL or something if they've got it by then.

I'm not a big fan of the "acting PIC" time thing in an RJ. Personally, I think it's skirting the rules on a technicality and totally disregarding what the the FARs intend. If an FO asked me to let him be "acting PIC" on a flight I was CA of, I'd have to laugh. If that makes me "mean" or a bad person, so be it. I don't think I'm pulling the ladder up behing me, and I don't think I'm saying anything like "I did it, so you have to." I'll be damned if I agree to that, there's an emergency in flight and I have a 280 hour FO saying "But.....but....you said *I* could act as PIC!"

Well said. If an FO asked me, I would say 'ok' just to help a brother out but I would also make my disclaimer something to effect of this, "now, if anything bad does actually happen let us remember who signed the manifest and who is actually PIC, I am just trying to help your poor planning a$$ out."

So what about the part 141 guys that end up getting their CSEL/CMEL at 190 hours? Or, in my case, closer to 210 hours.

Once I have a few private students, I'll be up there at the 250 PIC level, but only after that.

But anyway, what the hell do I care. . .I've got a while to go. The 100 hour XC time is only 44.2 hours shy, and the night requirement is almost there as well (6.1 needed).

Well, you won't have this problem since you are an esteemed member of JC and have been edumacated

I think people shouldn't be even applying for the airlines with less than that. It's good to have this in mind though. I'll make sure I get that before embarrasing myself

Agree 100%. I do not condone getting 'hours' this way, just a heads up to those who have taken this path. And more so a heads up to folks NOT to take this path.

Get some real hours first folks. My advice is to sign off at least 10 students and sign off at least one in the following areas - IRA, Multi, Commercial (single and multi), CFI. Now, some might say, "but to sign to sign off a CFI that means I would have to instruct for at least 2 years!". I say, "so be it, you will thank me later."

 

[kellwolf]

I agree . . . it's the silliest thing I've heard in a while.

Well, that and this whole "Autopilot on at 600 feet" thing.

I'll call "AP on" at 600 ft in a few cases: when the WX is total crap, and I'm gonna have to pay attention to deviating around it, when there's a ton of traffic in the area or when I'm dog tired after a highspeed or a reduced rest overnight where I got about 5 hours of sleep.