Airlines rush to add regional jets; who will fly them?

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Brand X said:
The problem is you guys are trying to turn a job that was never meant to be a career into a career.
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Wow.....just wow. That has got to be one of the most ignorant statements I've seen around here in a long time. Let's see, you made it, so F..K everybody else.....here comes the bus. Thanks for that, I hope the tread marks on my back come out in the wash!:sarcasm:

So, let gets this straight, anyone at a regional who would like to move to the majors (that prior to this year....haven't hired in many years) should quit trying to improve conditions where we're at.....after all, it's not a career. Get a freaking clue! With the many regional airlines, and the few majors, there IS NOT and WILL NOT be a spot for everyone who wants to move on. Luck, and knowing the right people play a HUGE part in who gets to the big leagues. Everyone else gets to try to make the best out of the regional they're currently flying for. As a result, why shouldn't we try to make regional flying a career. There's a hell of a lot more of us than there are of you. We are all professional pilots and we should ALL TRY TO IMPROVE THE PROFESSION IN ANY WAY POSSIBLE.

Maybe you should park your bus and help a fellow JC'er out. After all, that's what this site is all about. Oh, on the topic of helping, since I'm not making a career where I'm at.....because, according to you, I'm not supposed to. Would you send me your contact information so I can get a recommendation from you and then you can get me a dream job. 'Cause I sure as hell don't want to stay where I'm at. :p
 
cre8flyer said:
The statistics in the article are interesting. . .

1. Passenger numbers increasing by 26% between 2000 and 2011
2. 142'000 ATPs in circulation in 2000, and in 2011 the number is expected to be. . . 142'000
3. Commercial licences: decline by 7'000 by 2011
4. Pinnacle paying a 1.1 mio penalty for not having enough pilots to fly the schedule
5. Airlines recruiting in non-traditional locations
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I wouldn't put much stock in the PCL thing. They've paid out millions of dollars in fines, but they won't come any closer on wages in negotiations. Must not be concerning them too much. The amount of money they've paid in fines alone this year could cut in half the amount we're apart on financially OVER THE LIFE OF THE CONTRACT. Yeah, they could pay that amount over 5 years and bring is that much closer. Instead, they'd rather give it to NWA all in one year and keep battling it out.

This is all good news for the future of wages for pilots.
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I hope so, but I'm not holding my breath.

I love those statistics. Anyone know where to see real hard numbers on how many commercial and ATP certificates the FAA issues?
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One thing the article fails to mention is that not everyone that gets a commercial cert is gonna fly commerical, much less fly for an airline. Some guys get it just to do so, some get it to get a break on their aircraft insurance policy. A LOT of those guys with commericals will be CFIs, some will actually (I know this is gonna come as a shock) STAY CFIs.... by choice.
 
Velocipede said:
That's exactly the problem. And there's a bunch of RJ F/Os willing to fly a Skybus A320 for $65 an hour. There's a bunch of Skybus F/Os willing to fly a Virgin Airbus for $95 an hour. And there's a bunch of furloughed USAir/UAL pilots willing to fly a jetBlue Airbus for $120 an hour.

Wonder why the profession is in a tailspin? Because people are too damn lazy to say no to crap wages and go get a real job. The guy I respect most in that story is the guy who chucked it and went to drive a truck to be with his family.

Until pilots refuse to take these crap jobs for no pay and no benefits, the profession will continue to decline.
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Yea Velo, but man, as military, you have to think at least a LITTLE about the little guy who has to pay a huge student loan which if he leaves, he will no longer even get any use of. I agree with the rest but it takes some motivation. Let me ask you honestly, if you could make more money doing something else right now, in an office would you take it? I probably would if I could affor to fly on the side (which you're trying to take my GA away, don't think I forgot lol :rolleyes:) but I think I would only because I have something like JC to guide me. Sadly, many don't.
 
pilot's pay always sparks a real war in here, but what other options a new aspiring pilot has when looking for a job? I don't think I have enough leverage to show up and say f.u. I want that 100k...well that would be a laugh. :crazy:
 
OldTownPilot said:
The pilot shortage has really hit the flight school ranks.

Our school needs a flight instructor bad but nobody wants to go to a place with no multi engine airplane.

Anyone want a CFI job in Maine?
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Unbelieveable as it may seem, I have heard in so many words of a flight school here in Minny that is hiring CFI's that already have a class dates with a regional. That is how short the schools are. Bad for the schools, Bad for the students.
 
Yeah, I've talked A LOT to guys who flew regional for a year or two and just got out because the pay wasn't going anywhere. But, there are some jobs that aren't that bad out there.

I personally think there will be a few things that will change the industry in terms of pilot treatment and pay (whether good or bad, I don't know), one of these is oil, it's not going anywhere but up the next 20 years and I think it could be the death of this current low fare revolution (kinda like how the immediate post deregulation low fare wave subsided by the late '80s), a significant labor backlash (which some analysts are starting to comment on), and continuing terrorism uncertainty, it only takes one aviation terrorism event to send the passengers to the buses and trains or cars...
I think oil is going to be a HUGE issue in the airline industry and the only way I see it being addressed is through new technology, and I just don't see that happening on a broad basis.
 
Brand X said:
All of you will fly those RJs for whatever management decides to pay you, and you will do it willingly.
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You want to know something funny... Management offered us bigger airplane and the rate we said we'd do it for was the rate that a mainline carrier had set for a similar aircraft a few months prior. That's pretty sad... a regional shooting for a price range that a major is using. Oh wait... It actually wasn't that good of a price. It's just that the major took a crappy low rate to get some growth flying.
 
Velocipede said:
That's exactly the problem. And there's a bunch of RJ F/Os willing to fly a Skybus A320 for $65 an hour. There's a bunch of Skybus F/Os willing to fly a Virgin Airbus for $95 an hour. And there's a bunch of furloughed USAir/UAL pilots willing to fly a jetBlue Airbus for $120 an hour.

Wonder why the profession is in a tailspin? Because people are too damn lazy to say no to crap wages and go get a real job. The guy I respect most in that story is the guy who chucked it and went to drive a truck to be with his family.

Until pilots refuse to take these crap jobs for no pay and no benefits, the profession will continue to decline.
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What does management like more, pilots who fly for low wages, or pilots who blame other pilots for the industry's problems??

So, to a 500hr guy with a commercial whom regionals who would love hire, what do you suggest??? Instruct for a bit, screw the regionals and apply directly to UPS?
 
E_Dawg said:
So, to a 500hr guy with a commercial whom regionals who would love hire, what do you suggest??? Instruct for a bit, screw the regionals and apply directly to UPS?
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I heard the same thing from one senior captain at a certain regional airline. Is it possible to do that? I mean, instructing is much different than major carrier like UPS, can you just switch from instructing right into major like that? Wouldn't they expect you to have some airline experience before hand?
 
skidz said:
I heard the same thing from one senior captain at a certain regional airline. Is it possible to do that? I mean, instructing is much different than major carrier like UPS, can you just switch from instructing right into major like that? Wouldn't they expect you to have some airline experience before hand?
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They have turbine mins, so you could fly forever and a day and have 18000TT hours but no turbine and still get turned down.
 
scramjet said:
Yeah, I've talked A LOT to guys who flew regional for a year or two and just got out because the pay wasn't going anywhere. But, there are some jobs that aren't that bad out there.

I personally think there will be a few things that will change the industry in terms of pilot treatment and pay (whether good or bad, I don't know), one of these is oil, it's not going anywhere but up the next 20 years and I think it could be the death of this current low fare revolution (kinda like how the immediate post deregulation low fare wave subsided by the late '80s), a significant labor backlash (which some analysts are starting to comment on), and continuing terrorism uncertainty, it only takes one aviation terrorism event to send the passengers to the buses and trains or cars...
I think oil is going to be a HUGE issue in the airline industry and the only way I see it being addressed is through new technology, and I just don't see that happening on a broad basis.
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The more Oil goes up in price, the less you'll see in your paycheck (in this industry). In any normal situation, if the cost of production goes up, the pricetag of the final product goes up. You pass the cost on to the consumer. In the airline industry, the prices just go lower and so do the wages. It's f-ed up, but what can you do? Was this problem non-existant during regulation?

Here's an example, starbucks just raised its price of coffee by 9 cents. I don't think the guy behind the counter is making any less, though.
 
So who was the short-sighted moron in charge of agreeing to paycuts without requiring that the pay go back to at least what it was once the airline is out of bankruptcy?

I never did understand this...

Until a major pilot group collectively decides to strike or take a day off, I really don't see anything happening on the raising the pay front. Airlines aren't willingly going to make great strides for the pilots.
 
skidz said:
I heard the same thing from one senior captain at a certain regional airline. Is it possible to do that? I mean, instructing is much different than major carrier like UPS, can you just switch from instructing right into major like that? Wouldn't they expect you to have some airline experience before hand?
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It would be totally impossible. Hell, these days they won't even look at you unless you have transoceanic experience. PICKY!

But, that's my point. Seems to be a case of hating the player in spite of the game.

The game is: you start where you can and you work your way up. Always has been. Those who flew turboprops at the commuters when they were still called commuters worked long hours for low pay before getting that 'good' job. Same thing these days but the planes now have jet engines and instead of commuters we call them regionals.

Crap, it's my understanding that one forum member took a job at UPS with the intention of using it as a stepping stone to a pax airline. This was of course before UPS was among the holy grail of the industry. I don't know the climate of the time but by your logic it sounds like a pax airline pilot could have looked down on this person for accepting lower wages to fly the same equipment.

Just seems counter productive for a major airline pilot to tell a regional pilot to get a real job because they're bringing down the industry. Great way to pull the ladder up behind you.
 
Brand X said:
The problem is you guys are trying to turn a job that was never meant to be a career into a career.
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Just for reference Doug spent less than 2 years at a commuter in the 90s before being hired at Southerjets. These days it takes much, much longer than that and by the time the jump is made it's in exchange for a severe paycut and a worse schedule. It takes years to make back even what was lost, and the missed holidays, weekends, etc. will never be regained.

How can you blame an individual for making a decision that makes the most sense for him/her in terms of money and lifestyle?
 
E_Dawg said:
So, to a 500hr guy with a commercial whom regionals who would love hire, what do you suggest??? Instruct for a bit, screw the regionals and apply directly to UPS?
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No, I suggest keep your instructor job vice going to some scumbag regional like Gojet or Freedom. Then keep your regional job vice going to some scumbag outfit like Virgin, Skybus or jetBlue.

You know who is killing the profession. Keep your standards high. When I was entering the commercial aviation world, there were some outfits I refused to apply to...usually non-Union like NY Air, Eastern 2, and PeoplExpress.
 
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