Night flying...into clouds...IMC

Chewie von Nubbins

Chewie von Nubbins

New Member
Title a bit misleading...it was a VFR flight.

Got a question for you gurus. I am time building for the commercial now, and I ran into a situation tonight that scared me a bit. Just want to get some feedback on what to think of it.

CB build all day, then it usually dissipates around 7pm. Flying from North MS to South MS. Coming back tonight, it was very hazy and I was at 3,500AGL headed back north - about 200 miles directly north. I didn't realize that I had flown directly into a cloud and lost sight of all lights on the ground and my GPS lost satellite reception. It was IMC to say the least. That is when I got a bit scared. I started fooling with the GPS (Garmin 296) and my altitude started going up and down. That is when it hit me that I was directly into a cloud. And, the Attitude indicator is the only instrument that is not lit up on the panel (old C172P).

I got control of myself and told myself to fly the airplane. I then descended to around 3,000 AGL and I could see the lights on the ground again and my GPS got reception again. Talk about a relief. The situation was only about less than 5 minutes, but felt like 2 hours. I do have a deal of hood experience, so it wasn't totally foreign.

What do you make of that situation. I know that sometime everyone flying at night will run into it. What is the best pattern of decision making in order to not kill yourself, in this situation? Should I have found the nearest airport and got it on the ground until I got a good look at radar again? Not sure.

Thanks in advance for the help! Timebuilding is a very good thing for getting experience and getting yourself in situations. However, digesting the info and being able to bail yourself out in the future is why I am asking.
 
Did you check the weather before departing? Calling flight watch and getting wx briefing + landing and getting a briefing might have been the thing to do. Not only for your safety, but FAR wise as well.

OR, just file IFR next time.
 
I think you did a good job dealing with the situation. If you're VFR, and are suddenly in IMC, you should transition to flying off the instruments... just like you've trained to do.

I had a similar situation a couple of years ago when I was just starting my basic IFR training. I took off at night for a cross country back home. There were snow showers in the area, but I thought I was clear to make it home by looking at the radar/forecasts/reports. About 5 miles south of the airport, I was suddenly engulfed in cloud... all I could see were my strobe lights flashing off of the clouds around me. I immediately transitioned to my instruments and began a standard rate 180 degree turn. Broke out of the clouds soon after completing the turn, returned to the airport and took off a couple hours later when the weather had passed.

You're decision to descend out of the cloud was ok, as long as you know the height of the highest terrain and obstacles around you. If you don't know that, you shouldn't be descending at all. You know that you were in VMC before you went into the clouds, so why not bust a 180, and return to an airport in the direction you came from?

You could have then landed at a nearby airport if you felt you needed an update on weather conditions along your route, or get into VMC conditions and call up flight watch or a flight service station.
 
This may be a trivial question considering the situation but,


what the heck does getting into a cloud have to do with GPS reception?
 
I'm no "guru" by any means, but I'll chime in.

I think you learned (or reinforced) on of the oldest aviation axioms: aviate, navigate, communicate.

If you accidentally punch in to a cloud, first and foremost, fly the plane. You started messing with the GPS (navigate - that's #2!), but wisely realized you needed to get control of the plane.

Next, navigate: In your case - "where is VMC?" should be question 1. It is usually inadvisable to go hunting for the ground while IMC, but if you are sure of the cloud bases, and are double-sure about obstacles in your area and your clearance above them, you can make a decent to a predetermined altitude to reach VMC. Reach that altitude without finding the ground - forget about it. Climb.

Next: Communicate: If committed to IMC confess it to ATC. Better to take some crap than to die in a CFIT or spatial disorientation accident. Tell them you are inadvertent IMC and request vectors to VMC.

In the Army we had a specific procedure for inadvertant IMC:

1. Transition to instruments and commit to them.
2. Climb!
3. No turns except to avoid known obstacles.
4. Contact ATC.

Another procedure you could have used is the 180 turn in clouds that most POHs describe. That works if you truly just flew into a cloud - not so good if you're faced with lowering visibility and cloud bases.

You also asked about landing once you escaped the clouds - situation dependent in my view. If you determine you just got suckered into a rouge cloud, and determine the weather conditions are not lowering to a level that will drive you too low to the ground, push on. Call EFAS or an FSS for updated weather. Review your sectional for terrain and obstacles. If ever it seems like you have to scud run you are compromising your own safety and really risk a CFIT accident. In that case, land and reevaluate your options.

I know I went on a bit long - but hope this helps.
 
caliginousface said:
Did you check the weather before departing? Calling flight watch and getting wx briefing + landing and getting a briefing might have been the thing to do. Not only for your safety, but FAR wise as well.

OR, just file IFR next time.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply man. Yes, I am watching the radar like a hawk everyday when I fly here. I watched all of the build disappear before launching...that was what was holding me back and keeping me in the FBO and watching TV. :) Same wx pattern today. Clear skies in the early AM, and then by 10-11am, massive build and haze. Anything that was in my way (TS wise) had dissipated by 7:45pm..when I left. But, I am guessing it was some of the left over CBs from the daytime build.

You are right about flight watch. I didn't even think to do that. I did, however, ask the regional controller a couple of times if there was any TS/precip on his screen (as I switched from Houston to Meridian to Memphis - VFR flight following). Both times, they said that there was no precip in the area.

I was only 30 miles away from home airport when that happened, and I guess I was just more determined at the time to get back. Not the best decision to base things on in the future I know. Thanks for the help man.
 
caliginousface said:
Did you check the weather before departing? Calling flight watch and getting wx briefing + landing and getting a briefing might have been the thing to do. Not only for your safety, but FAR wise as well.

OR, just file IFR next time.
Click to expand...
Wait a minute - is the OP instrument rated?
 
Okay - that's what I thought - my post was directed to a non-instrument rated pilot.
 
Chewie von Nubbins said:
Thanks for the reply man. Yes, I am watching the radar like a hawk everyday when I fly here. I watched all of the build disappear before launching...that was what was holding me back and keeping me in the FBO and watching TV. :) Same wx pattern today. Clear skies in the early AM, and then by 10-11am, massive build and haze. Anything that was in my way (TS wise) had dissipated by 7:45pm..when I left. But, I am guessing it was some of the left over CBs from the daytime build.

You are right about flight watch. I didn't even think to do that. I did, however, ask the regional controller a couple of times if there was any TS/precip on his screen (as I switched from Houston to Meridian to Memphis - VFR flight following). Both times, they said that there was no precip in the area.

I was only 30 miles away from home airport when that happened, and I guess I was just more determined at the time to get back. Not the best decision to base things on in the future I know. Thanks for the help man.
Click to expand...

Ahh well if you're getting good briefings, you can't do much to escape unexpected wx changes. But even if the radar shows no precip, there can still be our fluffy friends floating in the air. Sounds like you did nearly everything you could anyway, so yeah like someone said, a rogue cloud.

Ian J said:
Wait a minute - is the OP instrument rated?
Click to expand...

He said for commercial so I #######dly assumed he had completed instrument first.
 
Ian J said:
Okay - that's what I thought - my post was directed to a non-instrument rated pilot.
Click to expand...

Yeah, obstacle was 1200 to 1500 (mins)in the area - quadriangle ....I knew that when I descended. That is why I was so quick to lose altitude. Thanks for the help man. That is exactly why I posted here!

PS - I am still sore about you changing your name ;)
 
Chewie von Nubbins said:
Yeah, obstacle was 1200 to 1500 (mins)in the area - quadriangle ....I knew that when I descended. That is why I was so quick to lose altitude. Thanks for the help man. That is exactly why I posted here!

PS - I am still sore about you changing your name ;)
Click to expand...
Ha!

Well, I'm a Baron-Driver now... so no more Chinooks for me. My avatar though, will always remain to remind me. :)
 
Another good example to support why I believe VFR pilots have no business flying at night.

Just my opinion. Good job handling the situation. Staying calm is half the battle.
 
Ian J said:
In the Army we had a specific procedure for inadvertant IMC:

1. Transition to instruments and commit to them.
2. Climb!
3. No turns except to avoid known obstacles.
4. Contact ATC.
Click to expand...

The FAA would disagree with 2 and 3. Upon penetration of a cloud, execute a 180 degree turn to return to VMC. I agree with the FAA
 
Chewie von Nubbins said:
handheld. Garmin 296. Yes, I learned today that when you are in a cloud....it don't get reception!
Click to expand...
Find out why or get it fixed!

The only reason I can think of for losing handheld GPS reception in a cloud (and this is a WAG by someone who knows next to nothing about these things) is that static electricity generated by the airframe going through clouds is interfering with antenna reception because of where you placed the GPS antenna.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
Find out why or get it fixed!

The only reason I can think of for losing handheld GPS reception in a cloud (and this is a WAG by someone who knows next to nothing about these things) is that static electricity generated by the airframe going through clouds is interfering with antenna reception because of where you placed the GPS antenna.
Click to expand...

GPS reception is not interfered with by clouds at all. The static mayyyy have done it but its highly unlikely. I agree with midlife and have it checked out. I've never lost signal in IMC with an indash or with a handheld.
 
You did fine. Most importantly, you are open minded enough to look into making your next encounter safer. I made a series of potentially fatal mistakes maturing in this business and it is just by the grace of God I survived some of them. Avoid obvious traps and remember to stay calm and fly your airplane when things like this happen again, which they will. You will make a great professional pilot...
:)
 
moxiepilot said:
The FAA would disagree with 2 and 3. Upon penetration of a cloud, execute a 180 degree turn to return to VMC. I agree with the FAA
Click to expand...

That's not always possible, Moxie. The authority to conduct the procedure I listed comes from 91.3. In fact, so does the 180 in clouds maneuver when you think about it.

Think about it - if you just flew into a cloud you just accidentally violated an FAR. It's done - fine, go home fill out a NASA report or whatever you want to do - the most important thing is to live through the experience.
 
Chewie von Nubbins said:
got a good look at radar again.
Click to expand...

Radar doesn't detect clouds, only rain.

Suggestions:
  1. When flying VFR at night, make sure the visibility is very good; you can often "see" clouds when you can't see stars or the ground lights ahead of you. If the vis is 5 or 6 miles, as it is sometimes in this part of the country in the summer, VFR at night isn't quite safe.
  2. Give yourself a good margin below the lowest reported cloud level. They aren't always that accurate.
  3. Make sure that you fly at an altitude that allows a safe descent to a lower altitude if conditions deteriorate at your altitude.
  4. Be alert for lights around you getting fuzzy.
  5. Be willing to cancel the flight when conditions may be ok but you really aren't sure.
 
P&H said:
Another good example to support why I believe VFR pilots have no business flying at night.
Click to expand...

This statement I completely disagree with. VFR at night can be perfectly safe, regardless of if the pilot has an instrument rating or not. It's all about risk management and understanding limitations for a given situation--just like most other aspects of flying.

Otherwise, this thread has very good advice.
 
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