ExpressJet Baby Removal Update (well, kinda)

MQAAord said:
There are several neighborhoods in the Indy area that "'highly discourage" children. They can't outlaw them, cause that's, well, discrimination. ;) BUT, what they do have is clauses in their HOA contracts that prohibit such things as swingsets & pools in the yards, etc. It pretty much gets the point across that this is considered an "adult" neighborhood. My in-laws live in such a neighborhood. It's filled with mostly empty-nesters like themselves, who want a quite neighborhood, without teenagers speeding down the streets or kids riding bikes in the streets. It's a good thing, and I'm all for neighborhoods like that.
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We have adult communities here, I don't know how it works with "discrimination", but you have to be 50+ to live there, and the amenties are geared toward the retired population. I don't know if there are rules about kids, but I guess they assume at that age your kids are gone or about to be.
 
There are some slightly younger folks in my in-law's community. I think the youngest couple is in their late 30's early 40's. It's not "Retirement Community", it's just a neighborhood designed for older folks. The kid factor is kept in check by the HOA restrictions and by word of mouth. If a family did move in with kids, there's nothing they can do about it, legally. However, that family would not be able to have a swingset, and there's some other pretty family-specific stuff in their HOA contract.
 
TheWife said:
My point is, it's so easy for you guys to say "if your kid is going to cry, do us a favor and don't fly", while MY personal feeling is, if you are going to be smoking, do me a favor and stay out of my fresh air, if you don't know how to use the PIN pad and run your debit card, do me a favor and get out of my grocery line, if you are going to be drinking and getting loud while at a restaurant, do me a favor and don't sit by my table. How realistic or tolerant is it of me to expect people to clear the way to make sure I have a completely comfortable environment with no annoyances? All I'm saying is part of this problem here is a lack of empathy and understanding for other people's lives, and an unrealistic expectation that mothers shouldn't fly if their kid might have a fit on a plane. I'm saying I have to tolerate you (general not personal) so if you have to tolerate me, well, we're even!


And there are a lot of times in life when we ALL pay for someone's crappy parenting!
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I don't see how you can relate to "annoying kid eat dinner next to me" as "annoying kid sitting next to me on an airplane". Annoying kid eating next to you in a restaraunt? Move to another table or go to another restaraunt. Annoying kid sitting next to you on an airplane? What do you really expect to do? You can't move and are forced to sit next to that kid for X hours of the flight. Those are two completely different scenarios.
 
TheWife said:
My point is, it's so easy for you guys to say "if your kid is going to cry, do us a favor and don't fly", while MY personal feeling is, if you are going to be smoking, do me a favor and stay out of my fresh air, if you don't know how to use the PIN pad and run your debit card, do me a favor and get out of my grocery line, if you are going to be drinking and getting loud while at a restaurant, do me a favor and don't sit by my table. How realistic or tolerant is it of me to expect people to clear the way to make sure I have a completely comfortable environment with no annoyances? All I'm saying is part of this problem here is a lack of empathy and understanding for other people's lives, and an unrealistic expectation that mothers shouldn't fly if their kid might have a fit on a plane. I'm saying I have to tolerate you (general not personal) so if you have to tolerate me, well, we're even!
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Big difference. If your little brat's screaming is annoying me at a restaurant, then I can get up and leave. If you're taking too long at the ATM, then I can drive two blocks to the next one. If your smoking is annoying me, then I can walk 10 feet and not smell it.

On an airplane, when your little brat starts screaming at the top of his lungs at FL370, then I've got nowhere to go. I can go sit at the other end of the plane, and I'm still going to hear that screaming. Not to mention the horrible parents that allow their kids to run up and down the aisles. An airplane is a restrictive environment, and forcing people that are jammed in there with you to put up with your out-of-control child is completely disrespectful of everyone else.
 
SkyCougar said:
what about the non-stop talkers, or on my return flights - the businessman who keeps dropping hints that he'd like me to give him a ride to his hotel in San Francisco after I pick up my car. I told the last one, "Did you see the pilot flying this plane? Sorry, but I'm taking him home!". (I wasn't, but it shut the dude up)
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:rotfl::D :laff: ROTFLMAO!!! That's SkyCougar, spreading her charm even at high altitudes! Thanks for the chuckle. ;)
 
I don't see how you can relate to "annoying kid eat dinner next to me" as "annoying kid sitting next to me on an airplane". Annoying kid eating next to you in a restaraunt? Move to another table or go to another restaraunt. Annoying kid sitting next to you on an airplane? What do you really expect to do? You can't move and are forced to sit next to that kid for X hours of the flight. Those are two completely different scenarios.
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Big difference. If your little brat's screaming is annoying me at a restaurant, then I can get up and leave. If you're taking too long at the ATM, then I can drive two blocks to the next one. If your smoking is annoying me, then I can walk 10 feet and not smell it.

On an airplane, when your little brat starts screaming at the top of his lungs at FL370, then I've got nowhere to go. I can go sit at the other end of the plane, and I'm still going to hear that screaming. Not to mention the horrible parents that allow their kids to run up and down the aisles. An airplane is a restrictive environment, and forcing people that are jammed in there with you to put up with your out-of-control child is completely disrespectful of everyone else.
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Uh, actually, you can put in some ear plugs, cover your eyes with a nice lavendar scented eye pillow, and tune it out!!!
 
SkyCougar said:
Not only are the smelly drunks obnoxious, but what about the non-stop talkers, or on my return flights - the businessman who keeps dropping hints that he'd like me to give him a ride to his hotel in San Francisco after I pick up my car. I told the last one, "Did you see the pilot flying this plane? Sorry, but I'm taking him home!". (I wasn't, but it shut the dude up)
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Now, if that was me, I would have asked to join you & the pilot! Love to see reactions when you call people on their bluff.:nana2:
 
Doug Taylor said:
If you can't control your 8 month or 80 year old, you don't need to be on an aircraft.

Plain and simple.

It's not a constitutional right to be able to fly on an airplane.

If you cannot (will not?) comply with a lawful directive by a member of the flight crew, the FAA says you've got to scram.
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What Doug is really trying to say is that if your burping from either orifice or not taking your night-night medication then you will be subject to the big boot in the sky!!! Gotta love that 'airline attitude' chuckle!
 
Just to tilt the discussion back to the issue at hand.

Mothers, fathers, childless people, let's extract the emotion out of the discussion because the rules are clear:

If a passenger interferes with a crew member's duties, refuses to comply with federal regulations (staying seated for argument's sake), appears intoxicated, unruly or engaging in misconduct, the passenger will be removed if the request to discontinue the behavior isn't heeded.

The FOM makes no distinction about age, physical/emotional condition or anything else.

If the passenger was speaking/screaming/whatever louder than the safety demo and the person responsible for that passenger would not (could not?) comply with a reasonable request to placate the child long enough to continue the legally required safety demonstration, the flight attendant doesn't have much of a choice.

I apologize for the sterile nature of my post.
 
mpenguin1 said:
Now, if that was me, I would have asked to join you & the pilot! Love to see reactions when you call people on their bluff.:nana2:
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Well then you don't know SkyCougar! She probably would have said, "GREAT!" I think she's good on calling bluffs on people's bluffs. Ok, now I've gone and confused myself... :panic: :D
 
Extendo threads like this reminds me of one of the most infamous quotes of modern history.

"Can't we all just get along"? "burp" R. King
 
Doug Taylor said:
If a passenger interferes with a crew member's duties, refuses to comply with federal regulations (staying seated for argument's sake), appears intoxicated, unruly or engaging in misconduct, the passenger will be removed if the request to discontinue the behavior isn't heeded.
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The above is exactly why I have not "taken sides" in the XJet case yet. I have not seen enough information. None of us were there, on that airplane, to witness the tot's or the F/A's behavior.
 
MQAAord said:
The above is exactly why I have not "taken sides" in the XJet case yet. I have not seen enough information. None of us were there, on that airplane, to witness the tot's or the F/A's behavior.
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I believe the premise of her story is not just the fact she was kicked off but the un-professionalism of the F/A in question. As per the story reported the F/A asked the mother to have the baby 'shut up'. The F/A also gave inappropriate advice to medicate the child and finally the F/A had told the Captain that she was threatened. Yes...its the moms story but just like any event that happens and is not videotape we have to base opinions on the credibility of people in the know. Not exactly holding breath for Expressjet to have their 'spokeshole' tell their side anytime soon, but do you honestly think that the company is going to admit anything wrong?

There is no debate on the responsibility of the crew making every flight safe for all on board. If this includes having children, drunk and loud adults then so let it be done....but do it according to professional standards. :)
 
Exactly, we've only heard one side! And we know how the media always reports the exact truth.

From what we've read, the F/A is pretty much entirely in the wrong. However, not anywhere have I heard anything from her, the airline or the crew. Until I hear both sides of the story, I refuse to lay complete blame.
 
MQAAord said:
Exactly, we've only heard one side! And we know how the media always reports the exact truth.

From what we've read, the F/A is pretty much entirely in the wrong. However, not anywhere have I heard anything from her, the airline or the crew. Until I hear both sides of the story, I refuse to lay complete blame.
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...and the thing is... we won't ever hear her side... nor the crew's side of the story.

Unless she get's fired out of the ordeal and then goes on her own talk show circuit.

Until then... you will only see Lawyer approved statements from the company quoting how Customer Service is their top priority and, like every other airline in the industry, that they reserve the right to refuse service to anyone who causes interference with crew-members duties... yadda.. yadda... yadda...

Bob
 
Captain_Bob said:
...and the thing is... we won't ever hear her side... nor the crew's side of the story.

Unless she get's fired out of the ordeal and then goes on her own talk show circuit.

Until then... you will only see Lawyer approved statements from the company quoting how Customer Service is their top priority and, like every other airline in the industry, that they reserve the right to refuse service to anyone who causes interference with crew-members duties... yadda.. yadda... yadda...

Bob
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I was hoping she posted on fa.org or that someone she knew would post something, but I've heard nothing. :(

I'm not defending her, or condoning any of her actions, I just wish I could hear her & the crews' side.
 
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