ExpressJet Baby Removal Update (well, kinda)

What other options do most people have? Anything more than 6-8 hours of driving qualifies for flying being a way better option. I do my best to control my kids, it's easier now that they are older, but when they are little, even the best kids can be unpredictable during travel. I took my son on a flight to FL when he was 6 weeks old to see my mom, and he cried a few times, and I don't really feel guilty about it at all! I have a right to visit my family, and 3 1/2 days of driving is not a better option than making a few people listen to a baby cry a few times on an airplane. I have no problem tolerating an uncomfortable, over-tired kid crying on a plane, it's giving them a chance to see family, or go on a vacation to make memories.
 
If you can't control your 8 month or 80 year old, you don't need to be on an aircraft.

Plain and simple.

It's not a constitutional right to be able to fly on an airplane.

If you cannot (will not?) comply with a lawful directive by a member of the flight crew, the FAA says you've got to scram.
 
Ok there is a huge difference between control for the purpose of safety, and control for the purpose of not being annoying. There is not a kid on this planet that you can say with 100% certainty, that they will not cause a peep, a bump, a noise, or anything that might annoy some child hating F/A or passenger.
 
I don't think a baby getting fussy or crying shows lack of control though. Babies only cry when something is wrong because they have no other way to express their frustration, therefore, if the baby cries for a few minutes while mom grabs a bottle, digs out a diaper or comforts the child to sleep then I don't see that as lack of control and it's something, IMO, other passengers will just have to live with. Letting your child run up and down the isles, not forcing them to wear a seat belt, letting them cry for long periods of time... these would constitute lack of control but even then, there's no need to be angry with the child. Instead, maybe you should beat the parent who's not doing their job.

Traveling by plane is now an affordable and efficient way of travel for most. If someone doesn't like the unpredictability of who might be sitting next to thm or they can't handle anyone who looks, smells, behaves or has different opinions than them, I would suggest dishing out the money for a first class ticket or as it's been stated before, charter a private plane. Otherwise, I wish they would just sit back and enjoy the fact that their travel time is being cut considerably and they will be at their destination shortly.

I agree with the other ladies who have pointed out that sometimes it's not just a luxury but a necessity to travel with children by plane. When my father died, his funeral was scheduled only two days later in Houston, Tx. My sisters are both from PA. My oldest sister traveled with three children and her husband by plane. He other option would have been what? To drive? She would have missed the funeral.
 
I agree, however if I came on the airplane with a "Smoke More Dope!" t-shirt on, the flight attendant can actually instruct me to immediately remove it because she/he deems it disruptive.

I can wave the constitution all day, but that doesn't apply to a private enterprise.
 
Ok you are taking my comment of "I have a right to travel with my child" way off in another direction. I never said anything about the constitution. Airlines allow kids on planes, therefore, I have a right to be on a plane with my kid, and if you (as a passenger) find it annoying, too bad, find some tolerance. Until the airline tells me I've done something to violate the policies and no longer have the right to be there, no passenger has the right to tell me I should have to drive or find another way to travel cause they find the noise of a child too annoying.
 
pullup said:
Whatever. All the baby bashers were all perfect as kids, and now that they have grown up they have turned into elitist snobs. Hope you don't fall off that high horse and hurt yourself.
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"Baby bashers" Ha! Now, there's an interesting new take on a hate crime.
 
And wasn't the baby saying, repeatedly, "Bye bye, plane!"?

That could freak people out. Like, people who are having "I'm gonna plummet to the earth and die in this mega-ton flying contraption" thoughts already. Now they have to worry about some freaky child prophet bidding the plane farewell?

Just saying.


TheWife said:
Ok you are taking my comment of "I have a right to travel with my child" way off in another direction. I never said anything about the constitution. Airlines allow kids on planes, therefore, I have a right to be on a plane with my kid, and if you (as a passenger) find it annoying, too bad, find some tolerance. Until the airline tells me I've done something to violate the policies and no longer have the right to be there, no passenger has the right to tell me I should have to drive or find another way to travel cause they find the noise of a child too annoying.
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What if the child is screaming an ear-shattering squeal for two thirds of the flight?

There must be a line somewhere. Such as when the rights of the parent and child really start to step on the rights of others (such as the right to a peaceful, paid-for flight).
 
TheWife said:
Ok you are taking my comment of "I have a right to travel with my child" way off in another direction. I never said anything about the constitution. Airlines allow kids on planes, therefore, I have a right to be on a plane with my kid, and if you (as a passenger) find it annoying, too bad, find some tolerance. Until the airline tells me I've done something to violate the policies and no longer have the right to be there, no passenger has the right to tell me I should have to drive or find another way to travel cause they find the noise of a child too annoying.
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You said it, not him.

I severely dislike crying kids. Why should I have to tolerate a bastard child because you want to go somewhere. If a kid can't be controlled they shouldn't be on the plane. Simple as that. A baby that won't stop crying isn't controllable. You don't see me making noises and disrupting other people. I have zero right to be on that aircraft. I bought the ticket but if a FA or Captain doesn't want me on that flight, then can remove me. That's why I shut up and conform to make the process smoother.

As to MQAORD's comment about taking private travel, the same could be said to a flying family.

I'd like to add, I can deal with the occasional crying baby or annoying passenger. But if it is constant, they shouldn't be flying. And that goes for all ages.
 
Why should have to tolerate a "bastard" child???? Because we are all the same planet together and it's called tolerance!
 
TheWife said:
Airlines allow kids on planes, therefore, I have a right to be on a plane with my kid, and if you (as a passenger) find it annoying, too bad, find some tolerance.
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Airlines (other than skybus) are theoretically not just in the business of moving cattle from point A to point B--they have to have some semblance of customer service (even though it might not seem like it sometimes). If 1% of their passengers is screaming, fussing, drunk, loud, annoying, etc and is making 99% percent of their passengers miserable, then the airline has every right to tell them that they are no longer allowed on that plane.

Like I said, I understand that sometimes travelling with kids is necessary. For what it's worth, my parents almost always drove places if it was less than an 18-20hr drive when I was young (and I was pretty much a mute kid--they thought I was deaf!) But I fly between 10-20 legs a week as a pilot and 4-6 as a commuter, and it's getting to the point where it's rare not to have a screaming kid. I had one in freaking first class the other day! I think it's shows a lack common courtesy and respect for the people around them that leads a lot of parents (not necessarily anyone here, you guys all seem like conscientious folks) to have the idea that it's the people around them that need to adapt to their children's behavior, not the other way around.
 
Airplanes aside, I'm pretty sure each and every person here has at some point in their life, been extremely annoying to someone else. That's life! We are all annoying in some way, co-workers are annoying, family is annoying, neighbors, friends, people online! If only you could all be removed when you are being annoying!
 
TheWife said:
Airplanes aside, I'm pretty sure each and every person here has at some point in their life, been extremely annoying to someone else. That's life! We are all annoying in some way, co-workers are annoying, family is annoying, neighbors, friends, people online! If only you could all be removed when you are being annoying!
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I don't see the connection or how this makes everything OK.

Getting back to the original topic, the mom said that on the next flight that they took, kid threw a huge fit. It sounds to me (pure speculation, of course) that the mom knows--especially considering the tantrum the kid threw on TV--that there's a high probability that her son is going to be a pain in the ass. If you know that your kid like to throw tantrums, then 1) you need to figure out some way to control him and 2) try to inconvenience those around you as little as possible while you figure out how to do that.

I don't blame the kids at all, especially if it's an issue of ear pain or physical discomfort. But a lot of the pissed off kids that I see really look like their using tantrums to get something from their parents, and it's pretty clear that they're used to being successful. It's not in any way OK or fair for an airplane full of people to have to pay for someone's crappy parenting.
 
Here's a business idea for all you who can't deal with kids on planes:

Found an airline that only accepts passengers over the age of 15. Or 20, or whatever. Seriously! You could do a couple daily child-free transcons, and maybe some retiree shuttle service from LGA to MIA/FLL. Could be a good idea. Would people pay your fare to fly child-free? Quite possibly. It's an idea.
 
"Getting back to the original topic, the mom said that on the next flight that they took, kid threw a huge fit. It sounds to me (pure speculation, of course) that the mom knows--especially considering the tantrum the kid threw on TV--that there's a high probability that her son is going to be a pain in the ass."


I respectfully disagree. If you think the child threw a tantrum on TV you're mistaken. The child started to cry when he was prevented from going after the toy he wanted and they tried shoving another toy in his face. I wouldn't like that either!

And the child was saying "Bye bye plane" not because he was predicting the demise of the plane. Witnesses reported that he was waving good bye to the plane that was next to them as they began to taxi away.

Geez.

Oh, and I apologize. I got DH's rules of flying wrong. Here are his top five:

1. Don't scratch the paint
2. Keep your name out of the news
3. Show up on time
4. Keep yourself from being summoned to the Chief Pilot's office
5. Play well with others
 
MQAAord said:
Here's a business idea for all you who can't deal with kids on planes:

Found an airline that only accepts passengers over the age of 15. Or 20, or whatever. Seriously! You could do a couple daily child-free transcons, and maybe some retiree shuttle service from LGA to MIA/FLL. Could be a good idea. Would people pay your fare to fly child-free? Quite possibly. It's an idea.
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I would be ALLLLL over that. It would become my only airline!!

We could expand, too - hotels and eating establishments. Malls and housing establishments. Whole cities, even counties . . .

Wait, let me wake up from this dream world . . . I was getting excited!:(
 
MQAAord said:
Here's a business idea for all you who can't deal with kids on planes:
Click to expand...

I can deal with kids on planes just fine...just not with out-of-control ones. :)

For what it's worth, I dislike Mr. Turn Up The DVD Player Without Wearing Headphones Guy, Mr. GA Pilot Who Feels the Need to Comment on the Bad Landing Guy, Mr Fat Dude Who Was Convinced He Only Needed One Seat As Long As He Can Overflow Both Armrests Guy, and Mr. I'm a Stupid, Loud, Drunk, and Slightly Randy Guy just as much as out-of-control kids.
 
mtsu_av8er said:
I would be ALLLLL over that. It would become my only airline!!

We could expand, too - hotels and eating establishments. Malls and housing establishments. Whole cities, even counties . . .

Wait, let me wake up from this dream world . . . I was getting excited!:(
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There are several neighborhoods in the Indy area that "'highly discourage" children. They can't outlaw them, cause that's, well, discrimination. ;) BUT, what they do have is clauses in their HOA contracts that prohibit such things as swingsets & pools in the yards, etc. It pretty much gets the point across that this is considered an "adult" neighborhood. My in-laws live in such a neighborhood. It's filled with mostly empty-nesters like themselves, who want a quite neighborhood, without teenagers speeding down the streets or kids riding bikes in the streets. It's a good thing, and I'm all for neighborhoods like that.

A society without kids doesn't last more than, oh about a generation or so though. ;)


But back to the kid-free airline. I was actually quite serious about it. There would certainly be a demand for it, and if someone were to actually go through with implementation I think it would be a great business idea. I have no idea how successful it would be, but I think it's something that would be worth a go.
 
zmiller4 said:
I don't see the connection or how this makes everything OK.

Getting back to the original topic, the mom said that on the next flight that they took, kid threw a huge fit. It sounds to me (pure speculation, of course) that the mom knows--especially considering the tantrum the kid threw on TV--that there's a high probability that her son is going to be a pain in the ass. If you know that your kid like to throw tantrums, then 1) you need to figure out some way to control him and 2) try to inconvenience those around you as little as possible while you figure out how to do that.

I don't blame the kids at all, especially if it's an issue of ear pain or physical discomfort. But a lot of the pissed off kids that I see really look like their using tantrums to get something from their parents, and it's pretty clear that they're used to being successful. It's not in any way OK or fair for an airplane full of people to have to pay for someone's crappy parenting.
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My point is, it's so easy for you guys to say "if your kid is going to cry, do us a favor and don't fly", while MY personal feeling is, if you are going to be smoking, do me a favor and stay out of my fresh air, if you don't know how to use the PIN pad and run your debit card, do me a favor and get out of my grocery line, if you are going to be drinking and getting loud while at a restaurant, do me a favor and don't sit by my table. How realistic or tolerant is it of me to expect people to clear the way to make sure I have a completely comfortable environment with no annoyances? All I'm saying is part of this problem here is a lack of empathy and understanding for other people's lives, and an unrealistic expectation that mothers shouldn't fly if their kid might have a fit on a plane. I'm saying I have to tolerate you (general not personal) so if you have to tolerate me, well, we're even!


And there are a lot of times in life when we ALL pay for someone's crappy parenting!
 
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