ExpressJet Baby Removal Update (well, kinda)

TheWife said:
I can't believe what some of you are saying! You can't drag a kid all over, get them off schedule, put them in a strange environment, and then expect them to behave! The mom should have known better, however, to call the kid a brat, say he needs a shock-collar, saying he needs to be beaten or given drugs??? WTH?? He's a little kid!! Yeah, beat him, see if that helps. :mad: :whatever: The mom was probably pressured by GMA to have him on the show, you don't know! From the report from the other passengers, they thought the kid was behaving just fine. Good hell, you people are so intolerant and quick to judge!
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My read on this thread Michelle is that those were some pretty tongue-in-cheek responses, not to be taken 100% literally. Beating a 19 month old - shock collars - come now -you don't REALLY think they were serious, do you?
 
I know they wouldn't actually DO it, but to say it is still a show of intolerance and a lack of patience, to me. I've sat by some pretty annoying adults on flights, some that made the 2-5 hours almost unbearable. But no one would suggest that an annoying adult should be removed from a plane, beaten, given drugs, etc.
 
TheWife said:
I know they wouldn't actually DO it, but to say it is still a show of intolerance and a lack of patience, to me. I've sat by some pretty annoying adults on flights, some that made the 2-5 hours almost unbearable. But no one would suggest that an annoying adult should be removed from a plane, beaten, given drugs, etc.
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I would......let the beatings commence, but get 'em off the plane first....I don't want blood all over the place! Where's my mag-baton again?











j/k ;)
 
MQAAord said:
I actually have no problem with a good spanking when necessary! None at all :)
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I thought this thread was about misbehaving kids and being taken off a plane. Wait, Oh, I see, you were talking about the kids here.... MY bad...:crazy:
 
I just don't understand when there became a standard that your kids had to behave within a certain range, or you will be taken off the flight? Maybe they ought to say that when you buy the ticket. Policies and procedures: "If any F/A finds your child annoying, you may be removed from the flight, even though it will ruin your planned, paid for vacation plans."
 
Well, everyone's behavior must comply with the airline's Conditions of Carriage requirments:

From AA's website:

"ACCEPTANCE OF PASSENGERS

American may refuse to transport you, or may remove you from your flight at any point, for one or several reasons, including but not limited to the following:

1. Compliance with government requisition of space.
2. Action necessary or advisable due to weather, or other conditions beyond American's control.
3. Refusal to permit a search of person or property for explosives or for deadly, controlled, or dangerous weapons, articles or substances.
4. Refusal to produce positive identification upon request.
5. Your physical or mental condition is such that in American's sole opinion, you are rendered or likely to be rendered incapable of comprehending or complying with safety instructions without the assistance of an attendant.
6. Your conduct is disorderly, abusive or violent, or you
1. Appear to be intoxicated or under the influence of drugs,
2. Attempt to interfere with any member of the flight crew,
3. Have a communicable disease that has been determined by a federal public health authority to be transmissible to other persons in the normal course of flight,
4. Refuse to obey instructions from any flight crew member,
5. Have an offensive odor not caused by a disability or illness,
6. Are clothed in a manner that would cause discomfort or offense to other passengers,
7. are barefoot, or
8. Engage in any action, voluntary or involuntary, that might jeopardize the safety of the aircraft or any of its occupants.
7. Additional information regarding American's passenger acceptance policy may be obtained from any American ticket office."


So there are rules of behavior that are applicable to all passengers. Kids included. If a kid is throwing such a major tantrum that they are uncontrollable, won't sit in their seat, etc, they can, per Conditions of Carriage, be removed.

I *do not know* enough specifics of this particular case to say whether or not this mom & tot deserved to be removed.
 
calcapt said:
I thought this thread was about misbehaving kids and being taken off a plane. Wait, Oh, I see, you were talking about the kids here.... MY bad...:crazy:
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I actually had to read that twice to "get" it. :laff:

The first time I read it, I was like, "Huh?"

Then I finally figured it out............... Bad boy!
 
TheWife said:
I just don't understand when there became a standard that your kids had to behave within a certain range, or you will be taken off the flight? Maybe they ought to say that when you buy the ticket. Policies and procedures: "If any F/A finds your child annoying, you may be removed from the flight, even though it will ruin your planned, paid for vacation plans."
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Ehh, personally, I thought the video kind of destroyed the 'poor, innocent victim' image she was trying to maintain.

I'm from a spanking family, but I was probably only spanked twice.

If my mother told us to sit down and be quiet, darnit, we sat down and were quiet because we knew there were consequences to misbehaving, and our parents didn't have an aversion to discipline when needed, on the spot.

I think I turned out ok! :)
 
I think the point, though Doug, is that this kid is 19 months old. Expecting a 19 month old to have the same behavior as a 4 or 5 year old is not realistic.
 
Yeah, ask your mom how well behaved you were at that age, on flights or in situations in which you just can not expect a kid to behave. Kids have a threshold. If I take my kids out shopping for 6 hours, they miss their naps, they are tired and hot, and hungry, no amount of spanking, threats, or demands of respecting my discipline, will make them magically behave. I think it's funny that everyone seems to claim they are either a perfect parent, have perfect children, or that they were the perfect child, and that when their parents told them to behave, they did. Really? You wanna bet that your mom never had a day that she was ready to kill you for not listening to her? Amber seems to be the only one that understand age-appropriate expectations. BESIDES ALL THAT, the point is NOT whether the kid had the ability to behave or if the mom was a bad parent or doesn't bother to discipline her kid. The point IS, at what point do the f/a's get to decide how annoying the kid is and whether or not it actually a threat to the safety of the flight? Based on the rules you posted Amber, I would have been able to request a lot of people get kicked off a flight just for smelling bad!
 
MQAAord said:
I think the point, though Doug, is that this kid is 19 months old. Expecting a 19 month old to have the same behavior as a 4 or 5 year old is not realistic.
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I was doing long division and reciting Descartes theorem at 14 months... :) :sarcasm:
 
TheWife said:
The point IS, at what point do the f/a's get to decide how annoying the kid is and whether or not it actually a threat to the safety of the flight?
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From the second a passenger crosses the threshold to the aircraft until the moment they exit, it's the flight attendants responsibility to monitor safety and passenger compliance.

I'm of the opinion that there is a lot more to the story than the passenger leads us to believe.
 
Really, the Contract of Carriage is there as a measure to protect the airline from lawsuits if someone is actually removed from a flight. "See, it says right here you can be removed!"

I have, on one occasion, actually had a pax removed for foul body odor. Lemme tell ya, it was BAD. I was not the crew member directly involved, but there were lots of pax complaints, and the removed individual didn't even seem phased by it. There have been other rather odiferous pax that I've transported that were not removed. The difference? Complaints by other pax. I've had some pretty darn loud kids too, but none that would, by my standards, qualify as needing removal.

To me, to remove a kid & parent, the child would have to be out of their seat, climbing into other people's laps, running through the plane, and the parent would have to be doing nothing to contain them. I have had lots of kids not want to sit. Several I've had to ask multiple times to be seated or we can't go. I had to threaten removal once, a parent would not make their kid sit in a seat with a seatbelt on for taxi. I quietly and calmly explained the rules to the parent, and in a very nice way told them that if they couldn't get their child to sit they were in violation of federal law, and we couldn't continue to take-off with the child out of their seat. I did not have to yell, raise my voice, or cop an attitude. I just told them the facts, and I think how I said it finally got their attention, and minutes later that kid was seated with her seatbelt on.

But in 7 years, I only had to actually threaten removal of a kid once. I really, really didn't want to actually have to do it. Really! I wanted everyone to get where they wanted to go, and it would have taken a LOT to get me to remove a pax.
 
...and if the passenger didn't comply with your requests to seat the child and the FAA was on board, she'd have been hosed!
 
I know of a flight attendant that got a $5000 fine for leaving the aircraft to answer the jetway telephone during deplaning. The FAA violated her because when she left, the aircraft was under "minimum staffing" with passengers onboard.

I'm not sure if the general public understands the pressures that a flight attendant has to endure, especially when it comes to passenger problems.
 
As a parent of twin daughters and soon to be flying the line, I cna only say this. The F/A was with in her right to have the mother removed because of the kid. The mother just needs to let it go, she would feel the same way if she was on the flight and had a kid going off the wall. We all would all get upset even if everybody all had kids here on this forum we would still be upset that other kids were loud and crying. I dunno what to think of GMA and bringing the kid there but it does however certainly back up the claim of why the F/A most likely had the mother and child removed. Also I believe XJT got them on another flight to there destination so really the problem is resolved though maybe the time of arrival may have been bad for her it did save the company money and as well as not having a possible safety hazard. just my two cents.

-farva
 
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