"Say aircraft type"

loubetti

loubetti

Pays to fly
Hello all,

This is more in reference to using ATC services while VFR, such as Flight Following.

Example: I call up New New York approach out of KCDW looking for a class bravo and flight following. On my initial call up I would refer to myself as "Dakota 8086N". No problem there.

Later, after giving me squawk, etc. the controller will ask me to say aircraft type. Normally I would say PA28-236 Dakota, and although this is never a problem, I believe it is incorrect. Why?

If you look at a Flight Plan form it asks for aircraft type. If I try to put in PA28-236/G DUATS won't accept it. It wants to see P28B/G. P28B is the aircraft type designator for the Dakota, 235 and the non-turbo Arrow. P28A is for the lower powered PA28 series up through the Archer.

So, to make a long story short, when ATC asks for aircraft type is there any reason why I should not say "Papa two eight bravo" as this is the official designation for my aircraft? Alternately I do not think saying "Piper 28 bravo" would cause any confusion either.;)

Here's an extensive listing of various aircraft models along with the respective "type designator".

http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/acdesig.html

Thanks.:)
 
loubetti said:
when ATC asks for aircraft type is there any reason why I should not say "Papa two eight bravo" as this is the official designation for my aircraft?
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That's what I do. I always look up the proper identifier of the aircraft I'm going to fly.

loubetti said:
Alternately I do not think saying "Piper 28 bravo" would cause any confusion either.;)
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Not every identifier starts with a logical prefix. A Commander 114 I used to fly was an "AC11". Controllers don't always guess correctly.
 
Use whatever the document tells you to use. Don't try to personalize it because you have more horsepower than what the "generic" Piper has.

KISS philosophy.

Manufacturer or Phonetic Alphabet, neither is appreciated more than the other. Use whichever you're use to using.

The full title for the Commander 114 is Aero Commander if I'm correct though, hence the AC11.

So Lou,

You a designer with Dreamfleet huh?
 
Welcome Lou!

Just like others have said I would just give them the phonetics to the aircraft type and then the slant information.
 
Interesting. In most cases that "Dakota" in the initial call up would have been enough.The problem in your specific case is that you were dealing with a controller who didn't recognize "Dakota" so you had to give him some more information. I agree with the others that the official FAA flight plan designator is the one to use.

BTW, the only time I ever had to gave an alpha-numeric designator in response to a "say type" was on my night dual cross country as a student pilot. I think I had just given the N call sign and in response to "say type" I said "PA-38" three times before my CFI grabbed the mike and said "Tomahawk." "Thanks," replied the controller.
 
A controller asked me this for the first time on Saturday.

I replied with Piper Cherokee.

Why?

I ask because this was on tower, when I was on downwind (flying over the tower). I had a flight plan and had been talking to approach for a while.
 
Thanks for the welcome and replies and, yes, I own DreamFleet. Usually hang out at the AOPA forms, but discovered this one and like it also.

Now let me re-state: I NEVER had a problem with ATC and use of PA28-236 Dakota. Also, P28B is the official type designator for the Dakota.

Notice in a post above the writer used the "official" designator for the Tomahawk, which is PA38, yet it appears ATC wanted to hear "Tomahawk".:banghead:

I'll come up with something, as all I wanted to accomplish was to try to shorten what I have to say while being sure ATC knows what I am when they ask me.;)

Thanks again.
 
PGT said:
A controller asked me this for the first time on Saturday.

I replied with Piper Cherokee.

Why?

I ask because this was on tower, when I was on downwind (flying over the tower). I had a flight plan and had been talking to approach for a while.
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Were you VFR? If so, no one in ATC knew anything about your flight plan and, if you were not in Class C or B airspace, there's no reason to assume that your instruction to switch to Tower was preceded by a land line hand-off between Approach and Tower.

Of course, on would think that Tower could see what you were, but you never know. It could have been almost anything from not being able to see yo clearly to you flying an unusually fast downwind (that looks like a Cherokee but he's flying the downwind at 160 KTS so it can't be). :D
 
loubetti said:
Notice in a post above the writer used the "official" designator for the Tomahawk, which is PA38, yet it appears ATC wanted to hear "Tomahawk".:banghead:
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Don't bank you head over that one. This was before the FAA standardized the models describers for flight plan purposes.

I'll come up with something, as all I wanted to accomplish was to try to shorten what I have to say while being sure ATC knows what I am when they ask me.;)
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I think you already did. Saying "Dakota" should do it. If the controller is unfamiliar with the common name, the P28B should resolve it.
 
loubetti said:
Hello all,

This is more in reference to using ATC services while VFR, such as Flight Following.

Example: I call up New New York approach out of KCDW looking for a class bravo and flight following. On my initial call up I would refer to myself as "Dakota 8086N". No problem there.

Later, after giving me squawk, etc. the controller will ask me to say aircraft type. Normally I would say PA28-236 Dakota, and although this is never a problem, I believe it is incorrect. Why?

If you look at a Flight Plan form it asks for aircraft type. If I try to put in PA28-236/G DUATS won't accept it. It wants to see P28B/G. P28B is the aircraft type designator for the Dakota, 235 and the non-turbo Arrow. P28A is for the lower powered PA28 series up through the Archer.

So, to make a long story short, when ATC asks for aircraft type is there any reason why I should not say "Papa two eight bravo" as this is the official designation for my aircraft? Alternately I do not think saying "Piper 28 bravo" would cause any confusion either.;)

Here's an extensive listing of various aircraft models along with the respective "type designator".

http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/acdesig.html

Thanks.:)
Click to expand...

When a VFR calls up I'm trying to hear a few things... Who you are (ACID), where you are, and what ALT. This way I can determine if you belong on my frequency or somewhere else. I track you up, radar ID, and then I get you in the computer (for data processing). It's at this point that I have usually forgotten what type you are. That may explain why you were asked after stating Dakota.

As for specifying the type it makes our (ATC) lives easier if you state the type the same way you enter it in DUATS ... this is the only way our antiquated ATC computers will accept the A/C. Knowing the specific type is more important if you are IFR because your routing is effected by type A/C.
 
Fox Xray said:
When a VFR calls up I'm trying to hear a few things... Who you are (ACID), where you are, and what ALT. This way I can determine if you belong on my frequency or somewhere else. I track you up, radar ID, and then I get you in the computer (for data processing). It's at this point that I have usually forgotten what type you are. That may explain why you were asked after stating Dakota.

As for specifying the type it makes our (ATC) lives easier if you state the type the same way you enter it in DUATS ... this is the only way our antiquated ATC computers will accept the A/C. Knowing the specific type is more important if you are IFR because your routing is effected by type A/C.
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Agreed. Knowing you're a Dakota is also beneficial for me; I know that you can perform better than a regular old Cherokee (especially out here in the Dakota's...pun intended:)). The thing that irks me is when pilots call up with "Warrior" or "Cherokee 140." You're all a P28A to me.
 
pilotnate23 said:
The thing that irks me is when pilots call up with "Warrior" or "Cherokee 140." You're all a P28A to me.
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That's along the lines I was thinking. Dakota (also military name for DC-3/C-47 by the way) doesn't really mean much when describing your type. For some reason it seems to work when calling up as "Skyhawk" or "Skylane." But try calling up as Hawk XP and you'll get : ?????????

Yesterday we were holding short and tower tells us there is a Diamond on a 4 mile final. About :20 minutes later (:D ) a KATANA flies over the numbers. I chuckled and told the tower we thought he meant a Diamond JET (Beechjet). It goes both ways.
 
I was getting checked out in a 182 at our local class D airport. I checked in with ground as "cessna xxx." Ground came back with "skylane xxx." Even tower corrected my cessna call later. Anymore, after flying at 2 schools in 172s, 182s, Warriors, Archers, Arrows, Duchess', I'm just happy to remember what aircraft I'M flying! :)

bri
 
I agree with most of you. I don't think the point is to figure out a 172RG from a 172 for any academic reason, but to gather a general idea of aircraft speed capability for spacing and flow, along with getting a rough idea as to what to look out for visually.
 
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