I made my decision

This entire thread is incredibly interesting for me because it's exactly what I'm going through right now.

I recently decided to commit to ATP's ACPP down at Stuart, FL on June 18th. Before this, I recieved my PPL at a local FBO here in Chicago. After an awful first experience with the flight school I was fortunate enough to switch to an instructor who was an ex-ATP CFI and an all around great guy.

He routinely impressed me with his depth of knowledge of aviation and the way that he went about teaching me everything I would need to know for the checkride and oh so much more. I decided he was defininitely one of those people I would want to stay in contact with throughout my training...and beyond.

After finishing my PPL, and he moved on from his CFI job to a regional airline, we discussed my future training. We weighed the options of going the route of an FBO, 4 year college, military, part 141 schools like DCA, and others like ATP. ATP ended up fitting in to my style of learning, and he agreed...he should know, as he was my teacher!

I needed a school that allowed me to totally immerse myself in flying, and block out the external pressures, as I tend to get easily distracted. I find that when I can 100% focus on a subject, I always do fantastic work and am always on my game. This was a HUGE selling point for me with ATP. All about the total immersion.

An FBO would be suicide for me. I couldnt take it. I cant stay around Chicago and do the rest of my training, just too many distractions. Of course people are going to come on and say, "Well, what about PAS? Or other schools like ATP that do this for less money?". I'd say it came down to my instructor's opinion (of which i reguard highly) and my visit to the Daytona Beach location. I felt so comfortable when i visited that I knew immediatley that this was a place I would be able to learn at. (Unlike DCA...which I also visited, but thats another story)

Anyways, I'm rambling now, but the decision making process for this whole adventure was one of the more exciting and scary times of my life. I hope I've made a good decision, I did as much as possible to educate myself before deciding. Only time will tell if it was the right one.



On a side note: Could someone please explain to me why going to an FBO would make me a more "well-rounded" pilot. I dont understand why this keeps getting tossed about in these ATP discussions. I've seen many FBO instructors that are absolute trash...
 
Kfour you're right in line with me, I have thought about this for a long time.... I spent over 6k for my PPL, the reason is I had to keep recapping my flights, because my previous flight were 2-3- and sometimes 4 months ago. The CFi I had was garbage, gawd he didn't even know the proper climb rates for most aircraft, his feeling was just pick something that does not stall you...... Are you freaking joking???

I tried 3 FBO's some were better then others. But I always felt I wasn't been taking seriously, I really wanted to learn something. And when it was ground school time, (A.) my CFi forgot, or (B.) he saw one of his buddies and shot the chit for 30 minutes out of our 1 hour session, and still charge me for 30 minutes...why...because he was there he said and I could have ask him questions...

When I went to PHX and took a look around it was awesome, they were professional and knowledgeable. The planes were clean, the CFi's new something... To get what you want in life you have to go get it....
 
eagledriver101 said:
I tried 3 FBO's some were better then others. But I always felt I wasn't been taking seriously, I really wanted to learn something. And when it was ground school time, (A.) my CFi forgot, or (B.) he saw one of his buddies and shot the chit for 30 minutes out of our 1 hour session, and still charge me for 30 minutes...why...because he was there he said and I could have ask him questions...
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This is precisely why I cannot understand the FBO route. I just thank god I got the instructor that I did for my PPL. At ATP I hope to be taken seriously with minimal ########. Whether or not this happens remains to be seen, but with all the available information about ATP and other flight schools I decided this was the best course of action.

I really, really researched my decision before deciding. The guy down at Daytona told me as I was leaving the tour that I had literally asked the most questions of any prospective student. I take my flight school research seriously and tried to see through as much of the ######## as possible, and I feel very comfortable with my decision.
 
I am gonna have to agree on the FBO route. I got my PPL at one and could at the most, schedule maybe 2 flights a week. We sure seemed to spend a lot of time going back over things already taught. I still took my checkride right at 40 hours, but it was pretty irritating. And I think I had a pretty good instructor. I cannot even imagine what it would be like flying at most twice a week with a crappy instructor. It would take forever.

CF
 
That is one of my concerns with going local FBO type deal. I like the idea of cost, but I'm worried whether I'll be able to fly as much as I want without being bounced around between several CFIs.
 
kfour said:
This is precisely why I cannot understand the FBO route.
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Guys, what you need to understand is that you are responsible for your training. That means coming in prepared and studying as much as you can, but it also means don't accept instruction that you're unsatisfied with. I can guarantee you that there are literally hundreds of FBO's that have great instruction and quality training for a fraction of the cost of ATP. It's unfortunate that you two didn't find them, but you can't cast FBO's in a bad light just because you had a negative experience (trust me...I work with a number of students who had terrible experiences with ATP).

The flight school I worked at--where every instructor I know who has left in the last four years is now at an airline or good corporate job--was an excellent example of how an FBO should work. It was small enough that we knew the other instructor's students, but the boss kept an extremely close eye on our students' progress. I lived in constant fear of one of mine jacking up a stage check or checkride--it guaranteed that we worked as hard as we could to get them as proficient as possible.
 
Hey so I didn't read the thread, but are you guys talkin' about "Airline Transport Pretend?"

Sorry, couldn't resist. I never had any problems with the ATP guys in Arlington, and I've met a few extremely talented pilots from ATP.
 
Nothing wrong with ATP, its a good school.

But goodluck paying back that loan on a Regional salary dude. I'm living paycheck to paycheck, and with a $180 crashpad every month, I'm -$250 in the hole. That could also be because I pay $140 in health insurance too through our *great* health plan. :rolleyes:
 
One thing I stress to recommend to you who are joining is ATP is to request the CFI pre-test study guide early if you don't get it in your big box and start working on it while you are doing your commercial cross countries. Because it seems too many career pilots come unprepared for CFI school and struggle mightly and are forced to drop out. Private to MEI in 90 days is very possible and maybe even more efficient but you have to start studying for CFI almost immediately. Its your study habits that will play a big role in how far you go in this program.
 
777forever said:
One thing I stress to recommend to you who are joining is ATP is to request the CFI pre-test study guide early if you don't get it in your big box and start working on it while you are doing your commercial cross countries.
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Good advice, thanks for the tip.
 
zmiller4 said:
Guys, what you need to understand is that you are responsible for your training.
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I understand this, and I learned this very early from the first instructor I got at the FBO...and immediately switched to a new instructor. My ATP decision definitely included weighing the options between FBO and ATP.

ATP won for a couple reasons. First, I was tired of hunting for a FBO that would fit my needs as a career pilot. At all of the FBOs I visited, I felt like they didnt care or didnt want to work with me to tailor a program that would allow me to completely immerse myself in flying. Second was external pressures, ATP allowed me to "escape" normal life for awhile, and focus. This, for me, is so incredibly important it cannot be expressed in a forum. The need to be super-focused is who I am. Third, yes ATP can be expensive, but I currently have the means to go there...and am not going to come out in debt up to my eyeballs.

I didnt, at any time, dismiss the FBO route and considered it heavily. I'm sure if I had found the right FBO at the right time, then things could possibly be different...I was just tired of searching and ready to make a firm decision.
 
TheAlchemist said:
Research better the FBO's out there you guys! There are tons of good ones.
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Not everywhere. I got my PPL in BF Iowa. The FBO I wnet to was a decent one, it was just that they did not have all that many aircraft, and the ones they had were pretty busy. It took me an hour driving each way to get to that one. Would have been closer to 2 hours to go to one near a larger city. Now, figure 2-4 hours driving for each lesson and the fuel you would use during the course, and all of a sudden that FBO flight training cost is not so cheap any more.


CF
 
777forever said:
One thing I stress to recommend to you who are joining is ATP is to request the CFI pre-test study guide early if you don't get it in your big box and start working on it while you are doing your commercial cross countries. Because it seems too many career pilots come unprepared for CFI school and struggle mightly and are forced to drop out. Private to MEI in 90 days is very possible and maybe even more efficient but you have to start studying for CFI almost immediately. Its your study habits that will play a big role in how far you go in this program.
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Good advice, I'll do that... As far as my study habbits go, I have a 4yr degree, and am working on my second, so my study habbits are there. Thanks again!!
 
Airdale said:
Nothing wrong with ATP, its a good school.

But goodluck paying back that loan on a Regional salary dude. I'm living paycheck to paycheck, and with a $180 crashpad every month, I'm -$250 in the hole. That could also be because I pay $140 in health insurance too through our *great* health plan. :rolleyes:
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Ya but I got a wife that makes 45k a year.... :) and we could live on that alone fine, So repaying it wont be bad. I'll have to make some financial sacrifices of course, and I am willing to do that... I'm sick of my 4th floor office, and working with dum ####s, and I know I may work with dumb ####s at an airline, but at least my "office" view changes, plus I am doing what I love. And thats to fly. To be an airline pilot, you have to sacrifice something....

One thing I don't get is... I know 50k is a lot, but ppls spend twice that for school. My work paid for mine, so if you think about it, I got a college education free, and awesome flight training for 50k. So theory would have it, if I was like most collage students who had to pay for it on their own like 2 of my friends which is costing them 22k a year... Its the same thing, and I spent less money. They pulled out 80k loans, and with schools jacking tuition up, they may need more. And I'm only doing 50K with a four year degree... And there are grants out there that I am researching... so yes my rich Uncle Same will pay at least a few grand... Hell when my work was paying for school I got 8k in grants and that was only applying for grants for the last year of school, I got like 900 and 800$ checks every other month for a year... And I know I can get at least that and more know because I had my second child... the more kids the mo money Uncle Sam sends. There are millions of $$ in grant money that is never used every year because people do not know about them..... But not me, I know, and I am researching them like crazy... If I cant get Uncle Sam to pay 10k i'll be happy, and I know I will get at least that.
There was a big story of a kid who spent his 1st year out of High School just researching Grants and Scholership foundations, and ended up with like 300k in money, of-course he set some back, but there are ppl out there paying their mortages with grants... Hey I am resourceful... If there is away for something, I'll find it!!
 
A300Capt said:
What do I think? I think, and I'm sure this won't be very popular here, you'll be a 26 yr old who's heavily in debt with very little to show for it. I'll give you credit for finishing your degree but you can get your ratings a lot cheaper at your local FBO.
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I agree, that is just madness. Do some of you guys even understand how much debt that is?

Let me just tell you something without it (hopefully) sounding like bragging. I have 280 hrs, commercial/instrument single/multi with about $1,300 in flight training debt on a 12 month, 0% interest credit card. The card will be paid off before any interest accumulates. I'm taking my CFI checkride in early July and will be paying cash for all of that. My car (2002) is paid off, and I have zero credit card/consumer debt (with the exception of the $1,300 stated above).

I have a total of about $24k in debt from my engineering degree, and that's a 3% interest loan. I have to come up with about $150/month for that. This has put me in a very nice position to move into professional aviation, and I'm not really that much older that you will be when you're done (I just turned 30). There were times when I felt very impatient and wanted to just get the big loan and quit my boring job, but I am SO GLAD right now that I had enough patience to do it right.

Reconsider that debt... Crunch the numbers and see how much you'll have to come up with each month and how long you'll have to do that for. Waiting a couple of years to do it cheaper and slower may seem much more worth it.
 
But, wrxpilot, seniority is everything, and I've gotta get it done now, since the regionals won't hire forever. I know what I'm getting in to, and I appreciate the advice, but I'm doing it my way.:sarcasm::sarcasm:

I just saved somebody out there from typing all that up. There ya go.:banghead::bandit:
 
eagledriver101 said:
I Guess everyone has their own thoughts on it, I have always been the guy to "Rush" I guess. I had a 4 yr biz degree when I was 24 while my High shcool buddies were "taken their time", I was making 40K starting while they were pulling down 25k a yr.. Now I am working on a second 4 yr degree... I would like the ATP route because in 90 days I get where some take 2yrs (nothing at all wrong with taking your time)...however, its just the type of person I am...
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Well... Getting your degree at 24 isn't that exceptional. I screwed around a lot in high school and also got my B.S. a month after my 24th birthday. A lot of my friends in school were 22/23. Made me feel kinda dumb :)

Personally I think there are a lot of good reasons for taking your time. As I said in my previous post, making money at your "real" job while getting more bang for your buck at the local FBO is one great reason. The other big reason is the varied experience you'll get. By spreading my flight experience out over a couple of years, I've been able to do aerobatics, mountain flying in Colorado and California, island flying in FL, experiencing international flying to the Bahamas, all kinds of different weather experiences, etc.

This is all good stuff that I think will make me a better CFI and hopefully a more well rounded commercial pilot. I don't see how somebody could really experience too much in one of those quickie courses like ATP has.
 
wrxpilot said:
This is all good stuff that I think will make me a better CFI and hopefully a more well rounded commercial pilot. I don't see how somebody could really experience too much in one of those quickie courses like ATP has.
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Not everybody who spends "years" to get their ratings does it outside of their local FBO... you've got some impressive experience... but I can definately see how you can't "see how somebody could do it" at ATP...

It's all about perspective and what works for each individual in their situation & not everyone comes to ATP a "green" wide eye'd professional pilot wannabe... and not everyone who leaves goes directly to the RJ for their rest of their life without experiencing other fun facets of aviation.

Bob
 
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