"DF" Steer???

S

SierraPilot123

Well-Known Member
Does anyone know of a good resource that explains/discusses the DF steer?

The AIM has a small paragraph on it, but I am looking for more instructions and who they can be performed with? Would most FSS's be able to perform this? Is this outdated, or can it still be demonstrated for students?



Thanks
 
SierraPilot123 said:
Is this outdated, or can it still be demonstrated for students?
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The equipment has been removed from at least some FSS; I've had a briefer point to the gaping hole in their cabinets. There was a movement to have the equipment removed from all FSS, but I think that AOPA fought that. Your best bet is to call your local FSS and ask about their capability.
 
Thanks tgrayson. That makes sense.

I have tried to contact the local FSS via landline and it has been impossible to find a phone number for them. 1800WX Brief doesn't direct you to them any longer.

I will try to contact them in the air tomorrow.
 
Don't worry about it.

1 You'll NEVER use one
2 They are going away
3 Familiar with a radar environment?
4 Buy a GPS

:yup:
 
Phone number is not in the AFD.

But ya, I am over it. There is no info available despite it being on the Part 141 syllabus.

Instead I showed the students how to get radar vectors, Direct To on the GPS and VOR use.
 
1800wxbrief still works because I used it a few minutes ago ;)

Also I don't know why people don't care about antiquated technologies. It can be used as a great backup to help you when things really go awry.
 
what on earth is "DF steer"? I've never even heard of that... google turned up nothing. Does it go by any different names?
 
butt said:
what on earth is "DF steer"? I've never even heard of that... google turned up nothing. Does it go by any different names?
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Read the AIM

1-1-16. VHF Direction Finder

a. The VHF Direction Finder (VHF/DF) is one of the common systems that helps pilots without their being aware of its operation. It is a ground-based radio receiver used by the operator of the ground station. FAA facilities that provide VHF/DF service are identified in the A/FD.

b. The equipment consists of a directional antenna system and a VHF radio receiver.

c. The VHF/DF receiver display indicates the magnetic direction of the aircraft from the ground station each time the aircraft transmits.

d. DF equipment is of particular value in locating lost aircraft and in helping to identify aircraft on radar.
 
butt said:
what on earth is "DF steer"? I've never even heard of that... google turned up nothing. Does it go by any different names?
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IIRC call up FSS, they'll tell you to key your mike for a bit, they get your bearing from the receiver and tell you where they think you are.
 
I think that after the initial direction finding fix, they can ask you for your heading and IAS and using that information along with another fix a few minutes later they can triangulate you fairly well.
 
Basically a DF Steer is/was a procedure for if you get lost, you can call up the FSS and they will hold your hand and walk you through your 6 Cs (lost procedures). They have a chart on a desk and will give you the VOR frequencies to tune and ask you to center your CDI and tell them what numbers they center on so they can triangulate your location. Its easier and more accurate for them to do it than the pilot getting knocked around in turbulence trying to scan for traffic, maintain altitude, and draw a straight line on the chart all at the same time. Its being done away with because nowadays in most places you can just call up ATC, they give you a squawk and Bob's your uncle. It is good to teach just becuase there are still some places without RADAR that a student could wander into and its just one more tool to have in the bag. However, I would never sign off a solo cross country until a student demonstrates proficient lost procedures without the help of ATC of FSS.
 
flyguy said:
Basically a DF Steer is/was a procedure for if you get lost, you can call up the FSS and they will hold your hand and walk you through your 6 Cs (lost procedures). They have a chart on a desk and will give you the VOR frequencies to tune and ask you to center your CDI and tell them what numbers they center on so they can triangulate your location. Its easier and more accurate for them to do it than the pilot getting knocked around in turbulence trying to scan for traffic, maintain altitude, and draw a straight line on the chart all at the same time.
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That is not correct. It used, as mentioned above, the pilot keying the mike for a few seconds, then pausing and keying again. They used their receivers to triangulate the airplane's position. All they could give you was azimuth and distance from a known point, so you were on your own after that.
Its being done away with because nowadays in most places you can just call up ATC, they give you a squawk and Bob's your uncle. It is good to teach just becuase there are still some places without RADAR that a student could wander into and its just one more tool to have in the bag. However, I would never sign off a solo cross country until a student demonstrates proficient lost procedures without the help of ATC of FSS.
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Probably true that most places have radar nowadays, but it is cool to say I've actually seen them do this triangulation. Back in the early 90's, my instructor and I did it for demo purposes. I doubt most FSS' even know how to do it any more...
 
butt said:
what on earth is "DF steer"? I've never even heard of that... google turned up nothing. Does it go by any different names?
Click to expand...

its just like your ADF. In this instance *you* are the NDB, broadcasting your voice over the comm radios. The FSS has a couple recievers in the middle of nowhere that point at you (exactly the same as your ADF pointing at an NDB). If they have a couple of these ground stations, the pointers will converge, giving you better accuracy.

In the real world they wont even bother to use the DF steer, if they even have it. They'll give you a squawk, call the local ARTCC and ask "who sees an aircraft squawking 1234" and then hand you off to that controller for radar services.
 
casey said:
its just like your ADF. In this instance *you* are the NDB, broadcasting your voice over the comm radios. The FSS has a couple recievers in the middle of nowhere that point at you (exactly the same as your ADF pointing at an NDB). If they have a couple of these ground stations, the pointers will converge, giving you better accuracy.

In the real world they wont even bother to use the DF steer, if they even have it. They'll give you a squawk, call the local ARTCC and ask "who sees an aircraft squawking 1234" and then hand you off to that controller for radar services.
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i've been flying since 2003, have my CFII and have NEVER heard of such a thing until now...
 
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