SkyWest being sued...?

[skydog]

How do you expect them to target only those that want to know? Ask everybody? Wait, now you've just targeted everybody!!!

The larger issue here is that the company is doing something illegal, and you guys are saying that it's A-OK for them to do so. See the problem?

That's the thing. You don't "target" anybody. You let them come to you. ALPA is hardly a secret. Skywest has an ALPA organizing committee. ALPA has provided them with all relevant materials. The information is available for those who want to seek it out. Let them do that. To file suit against a company that ALPA has no formal or recognized association with is, to me, suspect. I view it in the same manner I view our elected officials. The very fact that you want the job tells me that I ought not vote for you, because you have an agenda. The elected official is there to serve me, not the other way around. In the same way, ALPA should not want to organize the Skywest pilots. The Skywest pilots should want to organize under ALPA. It's a subtle, but very fundamental difference. It all comes down to letting the individual pilots decide.

As far as illegal activity, I've no idea. Right now there are just allegations of illegal activity. But even if that is the way of it, so what. This is a free nation. The Skywest pilots are free to seek their own information and make their own decisions. What is the purpose of a lawsuit, except to benefit ALPA in some manner? Which takes us back to the question of why does ALPA want to represent Skywest pilots? It should be the other way around

 

[Soul Brotha']

My question to the informed is, how can ALPA sue the company because it wants to represent the pilots? I'm all for ALPA or any union group to come in and help out the pilots. To me it seems that ALPA is saying that if you don't allow us to represent this group we will cause headaches against your company. Is that the American way or am I way off course here?

 

[derg]

Pardon me for butting in but unions don't approach the pilot group to organize them.

And considering I know some of the players involved, pilots have approached ALPA to seek information on how to organize. It's a grassroots movement and there are no operatives from Herndon traipsing the hallways in SLC. Anyone that's providing information to the Skywest pilots ARE Skywest pilots.

I've been through an organization drive at my last airline and many companies REGULARLY will elect to break labor laws in order to crush any organization drive.

If they broke the law, they need to pay the price, period.

Trust me, they don't send hired goons from DC to bust kneecaps.

 

[derg]

My question to the informed is, how can ALPA sue the company because it wants to represent the pilots? I'm all for ALPA or any union group to come in and help out the pilots. To me it seems that ALPA is saying that if you don't allow us to represent this group we will cause headaches against your company. Is that the American way or am I way off course here?

Go down to the pro pilot section and read the press release.

 

[Soul Brotha']

Yeah I didn't look there until about 2 minutes ago. Thanx!

 

[derg]

That sounded a little stern on my part, my bad! But there's a press release which pretty much lays it out.

I really don't have a dog in the hunt, but I've been through organization drives at another carrier. It's actually pretty fun! Just wait until the company turns the non-pilots against the pilots and starts to blame them for everything from weather problems to the declining populations of the Florida Manatee!

 

[Soul Brotha']

It's cool man. I'm trying to get more informed with the pilot group overall. I've just read Flying the Line Vol I&II recently and how management views pilots is amazing.

 

[staplegun]

An employer cannot impose greater restrictions on union solicitations than it imposes on solicitations for any other organization. The issue here is that Skywest apparently has allowed one association great freedom of access to Skywest employees, but is attempting to deny the same access to the organizing committee. That is illegal.

And anyone who gets pissed off just because the organizing committee is trying to provide information needs a serious attitude adjustment. The employer is not your friend. The information the employer provides to you is highly biased and likely false. You should welcome some information from the other side to balance the information you are receiving.

Of course, if you prefer to be ignorant, I guess you have that right.

:yeahthat: X 100...



Pay attention, folks. This stuff is not that hard to figure out...

Take a good, long look at the second paragraph above.

The company is not just standing back and saying, "have at it, boys; we'll let the pilots decide for themselves!" They are actively interfering with the organizing comittee, in ways both obvious and subtle.

The question you have to ask yourself is, "self, why is the company trying so hard to keep ALPA off the property?"


Kevin

 

[aloft]

It's cool man. I'm trying to get more informed with the pilot group overall. I've just read Flying the Line Vol I&II recently and how management views pilots is amazing.

GOOD ON YA! Knowledge is power, and that's all the organizing committee is trying to do, impart a little knowledge. In particular, being able to educate newhires--most of whom are new to the world of big business--is hugely important, and just by reading those two books, you're way ahead of the game.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Which takes us back to the question of why does ALPA want to represent Skywest pilots? It should be the other way around

I agree 100%.

There was a post on the SAPA site that basically said, "join ALPA now by your decision, or have it jammed down your throat if/when ASA merges with SKW."

Very pushy for something I should want (by ALPA's arguement). Hell, I'm all for information, have a vote, whatever. Forcing your way into my "house" is another matter.

Constant and ongoing fights (which I think a successful ALPA campaign will generate) will really drag down morale. I guess (should they "succeed") we'll be just like every other airline.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The question you have to ask yourself is, "self, why is the company trying so hard to keep ALPA off the property?"
Kevin

Perhaps the company, and so far, the majority of pilots, don't think it's in their best interest?

If the company is breaking laws, I'm sure that'll be "fixed". There's no doubt in my mind that EVERY single pilot at SkyWest is aware of ALPA's efforts. So, I don't think there's a lot to be gained, other than ALPA OC to "make it hurt".

Kinda reminds me of a plumber story. My house is leaking water, so I call my plumber. He's kind of a lame ass plumber, but mine nonetheless.

Then, a big, expensive, high profile plumber bangs on my door and demands that I listen to his "information" about why he's the best plumber. I alread saw his ads on the internet, in the yellow pages, on the billboard, etc. I elected not to use the higher priced help on several occassions in the past few years.

But, he insists, not only to "inform" me, but to demand entry to my house to inform me. When I don't capitulate, he sues me.

Oh, ya, I really want to use THAT plumber......

 

[derg]

Remember, that's for the individual pilots to decide, not the company unilaterally saying "Well, we're going to interject ourselves and abrogate labor law because WE don't think it's in our employees best interests".

If the pilots don't think it's in their best interests, they won't send their cards in. It's pretty simple. That's the way the law works.

No interest cards, no vote, no union. Solved.

But there's a LEGAL process that must be followed. The pilots "vote" by sending in enough interest cards to push for a vote. If they don't, ALPA goes away, simple!

Even if having a real union at Skywest would be the worst thing since "The Apprentice", Skywest needs to abide by labor law and respect the decision of the majority

The pilots may choose to (a) let the union drive naturally fizzle out or (b) vote to be represented by ALPA.

They need to respect the law just like you and I do. They're not above it.

I've been preaching for over a decade about reading "Flying the Line" to give a look at the labor versus airline relationship, few people actually do.

ALPA's not leading the union drive, individual Skywest pilots are. That's a bitter, but necessary pill to swallow.

 

[TheWife]

It sounds to me like the things they are asking for, are things that would cost SKW money. Access to class rooms, their own bulletin board, etc. Why should SKW have to provide these things for them?

 

[staplegun]

It sounds to me like the things they are asking for, are things that would cost SKW money. Access to class rooms, their own bulletin board, etc. Why should SKW have to provide these things for them?

All ALPA wants is equal access. All costs are borne by the union; it literally, monetarily, costs the company nothing.


Kevin

 

[staplegun]

Perhaps the company, and so far, the majority of pilots, don't think it's in their best interest?

We know the company doesn't think it's in their best interest, that's the nature of the beast.

How will the "majority of pilots" know if they are denied equal access to the info?

If the company is breaking laws, I'm sure that'll be "fixed".

I'm interested to know how you think it would be fixed if ALPA wasn't complaining about it?

There's no doubt in my mind that EVERY single pilot at SkyWest is aware of ALPA's efforts.

It's amazing how individuals react in a group when you control the "message!" Again, it's that equal access thing...

So, I don't think there's a lot to be gained, other than ALPA OC to "make it hurt".

And, of course, helping the company obey the law!

Kinda reminds me of a plumber story. My house is leaking water, so I call my plumber. He's kind of a lame ass plumber, but mine nonetheless.

Then, a big, expensive, high profile plumber bangs on my door and demands that I listen to his "information" about why he's the best plumber. I alread saw his ads on the internet, in the yellow pages, on the billboard, etc. I elected not to use the higher priced help on several occassions in the past few years.

But, he insists, not only to "inform" me, but to demand entry to my house to inform me. When I don't capitulate, he sues me.

Oh, ya, I really want to use THAT plumber......

Except, it's really not your house we're talking about, is it? It's a place where a large group of people work together. A more proper analogy would be:

My workplace is leaking water. We have our own in-house plumber, so we call him to fix the leak. "He's kind of a lame ass plumber, but mine nonetheless." But he just shrugs his shoulders and says, "I have to check with the boss..." So, nothing much really gets done to help.

Several of my co-workers know of another plumber who they say can help. I'd like to hear about him and what he can do, so I ask for more information. The boss tells us, "He's, a big, expensive, high profile plumber banging on my door and demanding that I listen to his "information" about why he's the best plumber. I alread saw his ads on the internet, in the yellow pages, on the billboard, etc. I elected not to use the higher priced help on several occasions in the past few years. Here, put on these hip-waders, the water's not really that bad..."




Kevin

 

[Seggy]

When there was an organizing drive at Chicago Express the management there gave the organizing committee the seniority list, invited them to talk to the new hires, and pretty much gave anything the OC asked for in their drive.

Makes you go hmmm...

 

[mrivc211]

Fellow SkyWest Pilots,



Today, May 22, 2007, in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California, the SkyWest Pilots ALPA Organizing Committee filed suit against SkyWest Airlines, Inc. to compel the carrier to obey the principles of the Railway Labor Act with respect to employee free choice and union solicitation.



Under the rules governing union organizing, SkyWest pilots are entitled to distribute and receive information from ALPA and its supporters on exactly the same terms and conditions that they have received information from management and SAPA. To that end, the Organizing Committee, in a letter to Brad Holt in March, requested what it is entitled to under federal law: that it be given the same privileges and opportunities granted to SAPA. The company refused to grant these requests, prompting the Organizing Committee to take this latest measure.



In conjunction with the filing of the litigation, the SkyWest Pilots ALPA Organizing Committee asked the Court to move quickly to prevent SkyWest from interfering with pilots’ right to organize. On the same day the lawsuit was filed, the Court issued a Temporary Restraining Order, requiring SkyWest immediately to cease and desist from preventing members of the Organizing Committee and its supporters from wearing ALPA insignia on lanyards or pins and distributing ALPA materials in non-work areas such as crew lounges and bulletin boards. The Temporary Restraining Order also requires SkyWest immediately to provide the SkyWest Pilots ALPA Organizing Committee with access to the same channels of internal communication to the pilot group that are now available to SAPA.



For your reference we have attached a letter, mailed to SkyWest pilots today, which outlines the rationale for filing this lawsuit. We have also attached the judge’s order, and posted all of the key filings in the case on the SkyWest Pilots ALPA Organizing Committee webpage – SkyWestALPA.



With this Temporary Restraining Order, the Organizing Committee and its supporters are free to exercise their federal rights to discuss and to learn more about ALPA and the benefits of union representation. We look forward to talking with you soon.



In solidarity,



The SkyWest Pilots ALPA Organizing Committee

1-888-SKY-ALPA

 

[launchpad]

An employer cannot impose greater restrictions on union solicitations than it imposes on solicitations for any other organization. The issue here is that Skywest apparently has allowed one association great freedom of access to Skywest employees, but is attempting to deny the same access to the organizing committee. That is illegal.

And anyone who gets pissed off just because the organizing committee is trying to provide information needs a serious attitude adjustment. The employer is not your friend. The information the employer provides to you is highly biased and likely false. You should welcome some information from the other side to balance the information you are receiving.

Of course, if you prefer to be ignorant, I guess you have that right.

I agree with you 100%....but the only thing that concerns me about this legal maneuvering is the fact that it will serve to piss off management more than it will help get the word out. There isn't a pilot on the seniority list at Skywest that doesn't know about the drive to unionize. I've seen cards, magazines, pamphlets, etc. etc. in crew rooms, on airplanes, in cockpits, on my bag in the crew lounge, etc. etc. The word it getting out whether the boys in SGU want it to or not.

Now that the organizing commitee has shown their might and willingness to have an adversarial relationship with the company, the company will now have more reason to just say "**** them, let's hold up contract negotiations, let's not follow the rules and let them grieve it....by the time their system figures it out, we'll be richer anyway".....it's been done at many other carriers, and it's still going on at some. Management at skywest may not be our friend, but they're still pretty consistent with treating people fairly responsibly and respectfully. Now that the OC has blown their load early, I'm not so sure that the relationship between the pilots and management will continue the way it is if the union is voted in.......

 

[aloft]

It sounds to me like the things they are asking for, are things that would cost SKW money. Access to class rooms, their own bulletin board, etc. Why should SKW have to provide these things for them?

They're only asking for the same things SkyWest's management has already given to SAPA--the management-approved "pilot association". Federal law prohibits management from favoring one group over another in this fashion, along with some of the other things they've been doing, like harrassing organizing committee members, requiring them to remove their ALPA ID lanyards, etc.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

I agree with you 100%....but the only thing that concerns me about this legal maneuvering is the fact that it will serve to piss off management more than it will help get the word out. There isn't a pilot on the seniority list at Skywest that doesn't know about the drive to unionize. I've seen cards, magazines, pamphlets, etc. etc. in crew rooms, on airplanes, in cockpits, on my bag in the crew lounge, etc. etc. The word it getting out whether the boys in SGU want it to or not.

Now that the organizing commitee has shown their might and willingness to have an adversarial relationship with the company, the company will now have more reason to just say "F*** them, let's hold up contract negotiations, let's not follow the rules and let them grieve it....by the time their system figures it out, we'll be richer anyway".....it's been done at many other carriers, and it's still going on at some. Management at skywest may not be our friend, but they're still pretty consistent with treating people fairly responsibly and respectfully. Now that the OC has blown their load early, I'm not so sure that the relationship between the pilots and management will continue the way it is if the union is voted in.......

Wow, some of you SKYW guys are being bent over by managment and like Oliver are saying "please sir, can I have some more."

Seriously, with all the loot the company has made of the backs of their pilots, and other employees don't you consider the paltry overide for the 900's and *I think* 2% raise rather insulting? And lets not even start talking about how badly, the Bro pilots got screwed in the last deal.

If the company wants to stall things along, doesn't that say something more about the company?

This isn't an attack against you launchpad, but seriously the company isn't going to willing let a union on property and have employees fairly represented and requesting a fair contract & wages.

Unfortunately, the company isn't playing fairly hense the reason for the lawsuit. So why then should the OC or ALPA still being playing with kids gloves?