Busted checkrides?

Maximillian_Jenius said:
Well, first you agree with DE727, then you agree with John. So which side do you believe. This is Jetcareers, not Burger King you can't have it both ways and made to order!
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Ok, I see.

727, said they hire everyone..John also agreed but went a step further to say they give people a chance in training

I went on to say I commend AmeriFlight for doing this as other airlines wont (as in you have to have the look, etc).

No, I am in no way an expert on the subject, so I really shouldn't be posting here.

These are just my opinions.

Like I said with the internet- everything is one sided, it's had to read tone of voice as well as hard to convey a point or opinion without stepping on toes.
 
jtrain609 said:
I understand that people bust checkrides, and you WILL bust a ride sometime in your career - but try not to make it a habit. You'll be taking a checkride every 6 months once you're employed to do this gig full time, so you better get used to them and you better be able to perform when the pressure is on.
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Yup. No one really says this, but after years of checkrides, they begin to be quite routine. Of course you treat the experience and the instructor with respect, come fully prepared, and do your best job. I guess if you do those 3 things, it is a little easier.

I usually study limitations on the longer flights two weeks prior to my PC check. Then a week prior, I do it a little more intensly. I do notice however, the know it all, loud mouths always have a tough time during PC's.

Don't worry about failing a couple. As long as you don't fail a million. Heck I failed my initial IFR rating, and was never hassled about it during the interview. I think the reasoning behind it was because he grilled the heck out of me during the sim portion and I did better than all the other candidates that day(according to him). He eventually made me crash to get me to do something wrong. His reasoning was, he had to make sure I was just having one bad day during the checkride and it wasn't a real issue. Some of us just have bad days.
 
I think it's up to each company. I busted 2, my pvt on the short fld lndg, and my CFII on the hold. I got 4 job offers, including one at amflight as a training captain. IT's not nearly the kiss of death that everyone things. Have a history of busting rides and it might be a problem, but if you do this long enough, your chances of busting one or 2 are pretty good imo.....
 
flyguy said:
If they could teach a monkey to fly, Express would hire it as long as it stapled its paperwork in the right order. They just took one of my co-workers who has 2 seatbelt violations in the last 3 months!! And that's in addition to a few other things that makes me question the sanity of anyone who'd actually pay this guy operate a multi-million dollar piece of machinery, let alone people's lives. I really thought only a few years of a clean driving record was the only way he'd be able to get hired by anyone. Guess I was wrong.

.
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Makes me feel good they are flying Delta passengers now. The reports coming back from guys I fly with who jumpseat to and from work on some of these regionals carriers are interesting, if competely true. I'm hearing multiple stories of guys relating how the captain has to talk the FO thru the takeoff and landing. Obviously, they must be low time and new.
 
flyguy said:
If they could teach a monkey to fly, Express would hire it as long as it stapled its paperwork in the right order. They just took one of my co-workers who has 2 seatbelt violations in the last 3 months!! And that's in addition to a few other things that makes me question the sanity of anyone who'd actually pay this guy operate a multi-million dollar piece of machinery, let alone people's lives. I really thought only a few years of a clean driving record was the only way he'd be able to get hired by anyone. Guess I was wrong.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying XJet pilots are bad pilots, cause while we're on the topic of busted checkrides, I also know of a few pretty good pilots who washed out of their training. They do have high standards...once you get in. So, it seems that they'll hire anything with 2 arms, two legs, 600 hours, and the ability to staple paper together, but they only keep the really good pilots.
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Also do keep in mind that ExpressJet does complete the driving record check or background check until about five weeks into one's training. Apparently people have dissapeared about that far into the training, and others ask the roommate and the response is, the background/driving record check didn't go through.

If it is any indication of the existence of standards, ExpressJet is currently failing 80% of first-attempt captain upgrades and some captains coming in for the annual recurrent training have even been sent back to the right seat.
 
Nick said:
If it is any indication of the existence of standards, ExpressJet is currently failing 80% of first-attempt captain upgrades and some captains coming in for the annual recurrent training have even been sent back to the right seat.
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This is difficult to understand, because the flight standards for the left and right seaters are the same. Are the right seaters getting pencil whipped?
 
B767Driver said:
This is difficult to understand, because the flight standards for the left and right seaters are the same. Are the right seaters getting pencil whipped?
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From what I've been told, many of the things they are failing for are related to judgement and PIC decision-making. I just talked to a guy who passed his upgrade at XJT two days ago and he said it didn't feel too difficult, because he spent two years as an FO constantly preparing for this upgrade. His opinion, which is shared by many others, is that those who sit in the right seat and don't get involved more than they have to in regards to what is going on are the ones who are more likely to have problems when they are offered the chance to be PIC.
 
"RJ operators are hiring sub 500 hour pilots and they've got like a 90% pass rate. There's NO WAY some of those guys are getting through training without a bit of a pat on the head and the training department saying, "It's ok, you'll get it on the line!"

Can I get an amen...... "AMEN"

"TT means nothing when it comes to 121 training IMO. Plenty of "low time" pilots are able to successfully complete training/OE where "high time" and "experienced" pilots are not"

Wheels mentions a few high times guys who didn't make it. I'd like to hear how many in his class had 300 hours and DID make it. In my experience, more experience equates to a better pilot. Since this has been such a universal norm for so many years, it troubles me to see people encouraging us to lower the bar for airline pilots as Wheels would like us to. In my opinion, it's this attitude that "experience doesn't count" that encourages airlines to continue to pay lip service to our profession and bring less and less competent individuals to the right seat.

Is Wheels a Captain at a regional airline that has to deal with low time wonders?

"If it is any indication of the existence of standards, ExpressJet is currently failing 80% of first-attempt captain upgrades and some captains coming in for the annual recurrent training have even been sent back to the right seat"

This is a symptom of the low time airline pilot craze we've been seeing for the last few years. Hope management is paying attention.
 
Don

I never thought I would say it, but I agree with you. Not to "toot" a horn, but I have been around great pilots for so many years that the TT didn't matter, these folks just simply had their #### together. I got a WIDE eye opener when I got out of the 121 world and into the 142 school(s) training. A very nice guy was in my initial class for the Citation, had over 4000 hours and had been flying all kinds of aircraft (king airs, P Barons, Paris Jets, etc).

However, we got in the sim for a day to do CPT and I was amazed at the brain lock he was in just doing simple things as normal checklists and an autopilot coupled ILS.

I really think the quality of your TT has a big influence too. Have you been doing the same run between city pairs for 4 years, or been doing a variety of routes, flying different types of aircraft, etc and so on.

Get out there folks and DO, do the strange stuff, do the stuff that doesn't seem "routine". Fly as many different types of airplanes as you can.
 
Dugie8 said:
A very nice guy was in my initial class for the Citation, had over 4000 hours and had been flying all kinds of aircraft (king airs, P Barons, Paris Jets, etc).

However, we got in the sim for a day to do CPT and I was amazed at the brain lock he was in just doing simple things as normal checklists and an autopilot coupled ILS.
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If I can ask, what was the approx age of this pilot.

Thanks
 
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