PNF logging actual?

I log instrument time only when I am the PF. But when I have 6 hours total flown for the day over the course of 4 legs and I have 1.1 actual, how can I, or anybody looking over my logbooks tell if it was "logged correctly". So unless somebody (not me) wants to log and summarize each leg, how can anybody prove anything one way or the other? They can't, so I'm surprised this thread has gone on this long.
 
FlyChicaga said:
The only time I'll really log actual and the landing during the FOs leg is when we need to do a CAT II approach.
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But why since the FO is PF? Seems to me if you reason that you can log it on a Cat II when the FO is flying, why shouldn't you log it any other time you're in actual when the FO is flying? There's not really a degree of difficulty for actual, it either is or it isn't.

Now the question is, when the FO takes the walk of shame in the back, do you log it as solo time? :)
 
I log the approach and landing since at minimums, I will disconnect the autopilot and actually land the airplane. If at minimums the FO does not see the runway, the FO accomplishes the go-around. If I have disconnected the autopilot then need to go-around, I fly the procedure. See, it is very complicated, but I make it easy... I just log the approach, landing, and the actual associated with flying the CAT II ILS approach.

What happens when it is my leg, but the FO has to do the autopilot monitoring for the CAT II approach?

The way I see it, just log per the FARs. If there is a grey area, be conservative.
 
FlyChicaga said:
just log per the FARs. If there is a grey area, be conservative.
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...and then get clarification to clear up the "grey area"... ;)

I never really thought of it as being a "grey area" until this thread. I've definately learned a few things about different ways of logging over the course of peoples careers.

Still waiting on the FAA response though. The last time I asked an "official" question on their website... it took about a week and a half for them to respond. That was over 3 years ago. Looks like not much has changed. ;)

Bob
 
FlyChicaga said:
I log the approach and landing since at minimums, I will disconnect the autopilot and actually land the airplane. If at minimums the FO does not see the runway, the FO accomplishes the go-around. If I have disconnected the autopilot then need to go-around, I fly the procedure. See, it is very complicated, but I make it easy... I just log the approach, landing, and the actual associated with flying the CAT II ILS approach.
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Heh, I'll make it harder for ya. :)

What if the FO does the go around and you don't disconnect the AP? Do you still log the approach and the actual? If you still log the actual, why not log actual when the FO is flying a leg? You're monitoring either way.

BTW, we get to start our CAT II proving approaches tomorrow. Whooppee.
 
I always thought the PNF was, by the FARs, operating the aircraft if the aircraft requires 2 crewmembers even if his hands aren't physically on the controls.
 
IMC on autopilot, who is doing more work monitoring the plane? PF or PNF? In that instance I'm not sure how you could say only one person could log the time as they should both be doing equal work on watching the plane.

I don't really care. I've been conservative with my logging and even had a comment on that when someone looked over my resume asking about my instrument time. I just told them I was conservative with how I log the time and that was the end of that. If you have a freight background or something similar that demonstrates your instrument flying ability, the time logged is just a number. I would like to see a definate answer just for the sake of having an accurate representation of my flight time.
 
IMC on autopilot, who is doing more work monitoring the plane? PF or PNF? In that instance I'm not sure how you could say only one person could log the time as they should both be doing equal work on watching the plane.

I don't really care. I've been conservative with my logging and even had a comment on that when someone looked over my resume asking about my instrument time. I just told them I was conservative with how I log the time and that was the end of that. If you have a freight background or something similar that demonstrates your instrument flying ability, the time logged is just a number. I would like to see a definate answer just for the sake of having an accurate representation of my flight time.
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I was thinkin the same thing in regards to the autopilot comment. If you have the autopilot on and your both just sitting there.. how can you say anyone is really flying it. I think these guys are saying that who ever is designated PF for that leg gets to log the instrument, but I don't know for sure.

I'm conservative as well when it comes to logging IFR. Been a freight dog for almost a year now and I'm barely touching 100 hours of actual.

Someone else asked how low you have to take an approach to log actual.. I beleive I read somewhere (could have been here) that if your IMC through the FAF then you can log the approach. Thats how I do it anyway.
 
Alrighty... here is the OFFICIAL response from the FAA...

Response (FAA Customer Service Agent) 03/07/2007 12:44 PM

Dear Mr. Moyer:

Your local FAA Flight Standards District Office (FSDO) can give the best answer to your question. Their personnel will evaluate your question along with any specific issues you may have. You can find contact information for your local FSDO on our Web site at: http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/.

Thank you for your question.

Customer (Bob Moyer) 02/24/2007 03:13 PM Can the SIC or the PIC of an aircraft that requires two pilots, such as an airliner, log "Instrument" time while in IMC and while being the PNF (Pilot Not Flying), or does one need to be the "sole manipulator" or PF (Pilot Flying) to log such time?
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LOL! They're here to help... ;)

That sounds to me... like it's wide open to interpretation...

I haven't personally called my local FSDO... but I guess that EDUC8-or did earlier:

EDUC8-or said:
I just called my local FSDO and they agreed that if you are a required crew member you can log the SIC instrument time.

Log away!
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If I had to guess... I'd be willing to bet that we'd get different responses from different FSDO's... I'm very amazed FAA.Gov wouldn't answer the question directly. I've always received very specific answers from them in the past.

Bob
 
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