Horrible Flying weather on the way? Weather.com thinks so yikes

About the test course, I agree with Tom! Not everyone is going to come into UND with the same level of training. Why put Joe through a course that costs him ~$4500 when he is just as profficient or even more than most of UND students. It simply doesn't make sense to spend so much on something that can be completed in 2 briefings and a flight or two. The same way you can test out of language and Math, UND should create an comprehensive stage to waive having to take 112.
 
AngelFuree said:
I think we can all agree that UND definitely has monetary interests in forcing students to take this course.
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Nobody is *forcing* you to do anything.

My thoughts here, but if you’re going through the program and graduating from UND, that’s something that’ll appear on your resume. UND has a great reputation, and making sure that everyone goes through the same courses keeps the name going strong.

If you have thoughts or concerns about this I urge you to talk to your lead, course manager, or ground school instructor.
 
MrLeisure757 said:
I'm 112. I'll comment on it. It's a waste of money and time. I'm amazed at the disrespect I get from people who say; "Oh geez, 112, you guys think you know it all. You'll have such a hard time." Well ummm yeah, the only reason I had a difficult time was because UND procedures weren't taught to me at home 1500 miles away. Waste of money. Instruction was good, I don't question that. Eliminate the course. Feel free to disagree, I'll disagree with you right back.
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I did enjoy the flying, but couldn't stop thinking about how much of a waste of money it was.

The guys giving you crap is rediculous. Umm, you already have your PPL, why the fark shouldn't you know it all already?(as it applies to 102) I got grief too. Not so much grief, but my friends in that class always thought it was funny that I didn't pay attention too much in class, didn't study a lot and then got high 90s and 100% on the block exams.
 
Snickersnwa said:
Nobody is *forcing* you to do anything.

My thoughts here, but if you’re going through the program and graduating from UND, that’s something that’ll appear on your resume. UND has a great reputation, and making sure that everyone goes through the same courses keeps the name going strong.

If you have thoughts or concerns about this I urge you to talk to your lead, course manager, or ground school instructor.
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People seriously need to get over themselves and the idea by having UND on their resume automatically makes them a better pilots. That is up to the individual, you are begginning to sound like Riddle guys now.
 
Dj To Rule said:
Which makes them overload on UND new-hires..

I'm sure Angel would agree with me, the quality of instruction from leads and experienced CFIs definitely makes the difference.
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It absolutely does make a difference. I have many positive things to say of some of the current leads that UND has.
The thing is you usually hear the bad side first before the positive side. Just like Venhuizen (sp?) says in his classes...I forget what the number is, but people normally tell 30 people of their bad experience before talking about their good experiences w/ a business. It's something like a 1:30 ratio. He was talking about how he tells everyone how much he hates GFK Flight Support but rarely tells people how he really likes the service he gets at Crookston. It's the same w/ UND or any other business for that matter.

Some of the current leads are VERY helpful, and it really DOES make a difference in training. I'm actually very happy with my current instructor as well. He trained outside of UND prior to coming here. His real world experience has been highly beneficial in my CFII training.

Newly hired UND CFIs should not be teaching instructor courses.
 
Dj To Rule said:
Which makes them overload on UND new-hires..

I'm sure Angel would agree with me, the quality of instruction from leads and experienced CFIs definitely makes the difference.
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Ya'll put too much emphasis on the quality you get from the LEADS, nothing special, nothing saying they have any more experience (hell I had more dual given than almost every LEAD save for the lifers).

Any place with younger instructors is going to have growing pains, the problem is UND has those growing pains on about a 3 year cycle.

I would argue that most "off the street" CFIs would have a hard time passing the written test UND has for new hire instructors (I think the test is BS). One of the best instructors I knew at UND was from the Pac NW, great guy, came to PDT after I did and washed out of training there, apples to oranges, maybe, but the proof is always in the pudding sweethearts.
 
TXaviator said:
no need.

UND doesnt hire CFIs from outside.
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Where are you getting your info from? There are some CFI's here that were hired outside of UND...

AngelFuree said:
You're right. No one's forcing me to take 112 if I come here with my PPL. I can skip straight to 222.
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I'm assuming that's dripping with sarcasm of course...

When I took a tour here at the school a long time ago, the school representatives recommended to me to not get my PPL before attending UND. Because, then I would be required to take the 112 course. Tours are good, and it ended up saving me money because I did want to get my PPL just before attending. UND doesn’t *hide* the fact that there’s a test course.
 
AngelFuree said:
It absolutely does make a difference. I have many positive things to say of some of the current leads that UND has.
The thing is you usually hear the bad side first before the positive side. Just like Venhuizen (sp?) says in his classes...I forget what the number is, but people normally tell 30 people of their bad experience before talking about their good experiences w/ a business. It's something like a 1:30 ratio. He was talking about how he tells everyone how much he hates GFK Flight Support but rarely tells people how he really likes the service he gets at Crookston. It's the same w/ UND or any other business for that matter.

Some of the current leads are VERY helpful, and it really DOES make a difference in training. I'm actually very happy with my current instructor as well. He trained outside of UND prior to coming here. His real world experience has been highly beneficial in my CFII training.

Newly hired UND CFIs should not be teaching instructor courses.
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:yeahthat:
 
Snickersnwa said:
Where are you getting your info from? There are some CFI's here that were hired outside of UND...



I'm assuming that's dripping with sarcasm of course...

When I took a tour here at the school a long time ago, the school representatives recommended to me to not get my PPL before attending UND. Because, then I would be required to take the 112 course. Tours are good, and it ended up saving me money because I did want to get my PPL just before attending. UND doesn’t *hide* the fact that there’s a test course.
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you clearly missed my sarcasm. but really, id bet theres at least 30:1 of UND vs non-UND instructors here...

then again, maybe CFIs elsewhere are smarter than to come here.
 
Snickersnwa said:
When I took a tour here at the school a long time ago, the school representatives recommended to me to not get my PPL before attending UND.
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That's very true. UND PPLs are superior to licenses acquired outside UND.

For the record, I actually came w/ 0 hours here.
 
Dugie8 said:
Ya'll put too much emphasis on the quality you get from the LEADS, nothing special, nothing saying they have any more experience (hell I had more dual given than almost every LEAD save for the lifers).

Any place with younger instructors is going to have growing pains, the problem is UND has those growing pains on about a 3 year cycle.

I would argue that most "off the street" CFIs would have a hard time passing the written test UND has for new hire instructors (I think the test is BS). One of the best instructors I knew at UND was from the Pac NW, great guy, came to PDT after I did and washed out of training there, apples to oranges, maybe, but the proof is always in the pudding sweethearts.
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Most leads I flew with, elder people, were great instructors.
My best experiences and learning has come from courses with experienced instructors.

You are right, just because they are a lead does not mean they are experienced. So it may be better to say experienced.

The problem with new hires is that they get extremely anal, paranoid, and competitive with their students and start quizzing them for their own insecurities.
 
TXaviator said:
you clearly missed my sarcasm. but really, id bet theres at least 30:1 of UND vs non-UND instructors here...

then again, maybe CFIs elsewhere are smarter than to come here.
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I can't speak numbers, because I don't have them. But, that's why many apply when hiring takes place? And, I want to say that UND doesn't *advertise* the fact that they're hiring to the outside. It seems to be fairly internal. I could be wrong though...


AngelFuree said:
That's very true. UND PPLs are superior to licenses acquired outside UND.
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Again, sarcasm without the tag? I can't tell for sure because I don't know you.

UND has a great program, but that doesn't mean that "Joe Student" from the local FBO with a good instructor won't be a good pilot.
 
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