A nightmare for JetBlue passengers at JFK

C. Make an honest announcement to the PAX, stating pretty much everything you just said. Then say,
"We live in a democracy people!, if you think we should continue to wait in line, please press you FA call button now. If you think we should spend an hour trying to get back to the gate, so you can get a hotel for the night, just sit tight."
Have the FA's count up the lights and then you are no longer the bad guy to the two passengers wanting off the jet.

Note-Depending on plane size, you could just ask for a show of hands.

I did'nt even need the ATL 10-9! hehe.
 
And then there is what the majority of the pilots do on flights I have been on:
A) Say nothing at all while the PAX get PO'd not knowing what is going on.
B) Repeatedly state, every 5 minutes, "folks sit tight, we should be airborne soon (Or make some completely unscientific estimate of how long, and keep saying the same amount..every time)
 
Generally, in times of crazy weather/delays there ARE no hotels. Plus if it cancels because of weather, the passengers are on their own for the most part.

The point I was making was that realistically speaking, by the time we would have been able to get back to the gate, deplane the two pax, and then get back in the queue, then the other 140 passengers would be at least another coupl e hours later.

In fact, when I almost got stuck another night in PIT, I started screaming at crew accomodations and my duty pilot about 2pm to get something on hold for the crew NOW in case the de-icing fluid ran out and the resupply didn't show up.
 
I know I was making light of it all:)

Edit my previous announcement idea to "If you would like to spend another hour waiting, as we try to get back to the terminal, so you can sleep on the floor because there are no hotels available, please pres....." :)

Still...8 hours, is an awful long time if you are sitting in the middle seat by the engine, in a Mad Dog. Even worse in a cramjet.
 
Nah, I'm not justifying 8 hours, that's crazy, but besides a static photo, a statement by Jet Blue and Lou Dobbs blaming it on illegal immigrants and big business on CNN, Shepherd Smith blaming it on Hillary Clinton on Fox, I really don't know the circumstances. Only the ones that I've experienced first hand.
 
You guys just don't see "the" big picture!


Sometimes things just get f'ed up. That's life. You can go with the flow or whine, b*tch and complain and get your $59 ticket refunded. Your choice.

You can always drive.
 
Doug Taylor said:
Todays exercise!

Materials needed:
- an imagination
- a KATL 10-9 page

Scenario:
Massive weather delays due to thunderstorms in the vicinity.
You have a 'wheels up time' you've already waited hours for.

You're #5 from the runway, there's a 'double queue' of jets, totaling about 35 to 40 jets. You're taking off on Rwy 26L and you're already past intersection E13.

Two people want off the jet, the rest (full boat tonight!) want to press on because it's the last flight to Chicago that evening.

Do you:

a. Wait the estimated additional 30 minutes for takeoff.

b. Declare that you need to return the gate and spend another hour for ground control to move jets on the taxiways so you can get back to ramp 3, deplane the passengers and then spend another few hours at the back of the line further delaying the (x-2) passengers that actually wanted to go?

c. (insert answer here)

Based on a real scenario that happened to me, discuss discuss! ;)
Click to expand...
ohhh shouldn't this be in the "your the captain" forum? ;)
 
Dunno if anyone else heard or read this, But some members of congress feel that legislation should be inacted to prevent people for being held up on these planes for more than 4 hours, and if a situation isn't likely to change, then the plane must go back and let off the passangers. I believe they wanted to call it a "Airline Passanger Rights Act" bill ... apparently it's got a lot of support from others, especially of the Northwest DC-10 mess in Duluth and the recent AA problem ... it'll be interesting to see how that pans out ... I wish i could find the news website I read that on .....
 
We had several flights CNX after 3 to 4 hours on the ground at JFK yesterday, several inbound international flights had to wait 2+ hours for a gate (I was one, FRA landed at 1530 on the gate around 1730!) Flight to SDQ pushed at 1253L and took off at 1840L! I don't think we had anybody on the plane for over 4 hours and then CNX, though... 8^(

For all of the "this is outrageous! I would never stand for it! I would be SUPER_CAPTAIN and force the company/FAA/airport authority/union to get me a gate so I could de-plane my passengers!!!" commenters, all I can say is...

...you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

There is no right/cookie-cutter answer to these situations. Trust me, no crew wants to do this to their pax. My analogy is that of an aircraft accident; there is a long chain of circumstances that causes these incidents yet all anyone wants to do is SCREAM - "Pilot error, Pilot error!"

It's never as simple or straightforward as it seems...

Kevin
 
Ah, the American customer...nobody demands more and wants to pay for less.

You do not get filet mignon for hamburger prices, and it's high time American businesses said if the customer wants that, screw 'em. Let someone else take care of them because they ain't worth it.

If you want your $120 transcon, then be prepared to deal with this kind of crap. Don't want that? Then start being willing to pay $600 for a transcon. Otherwise, shut up.
 
tonyw said:
Ah, the American customer...nobody demands more and wants to pay for less.

You do not get filet mignon for hamburger prices, and it's high time American businesses said if the customer wants that, screw 'em. Let someone else take care of them because they ain't worth it.

If you want your $120 transcon, then be prepared to deal with this kind of crap. Don't want that? Then start being willing to pay $600 for a transcon. Otherwise, shut up.
Click to expand...

Gotta disagree with ya. The customer paid for a flight between A to B & have every right to expect that service, to be trapped on an airplane for 10 hours, no customer deserves that.....
 
mpenguin1 said:
Gotta disagree with ya. The customer paid for a flight between A to B & have every right to expect that service, to be trapped on an airplane for 10 hours, no customer deserves that.....
Click to expand...

And the crew does? Under current Federal law they'd been legal to continue the rest of their flights all delayed by 10 hours. That's really the scary part about this whole story.

I haven't heard (most likely they didn't) one way or the other but legally speaking it would have been okie-dokie.
 
mpenguin1 said:
Gotta disagree with ya. The customer paid for a flight between A to B & have every right to expect that service, to be trapped on an airplane for 10 hours, no customer deserves that.....
Click to expand...

You're right, no customer deserves that, but I have news for you; welcome to America, and welcome to capitalism.

I agree with those who say that everyone wants as much as they can get for as little as possible. Who wouldn't? I do, but I also understand the value of a name and reputation of service in a business, and I'm willing to pay extra to get the quality I'm looking for. Under our system (or the way it's supposed to be), if a company screws up, you tell them what you think by taking your dollar somewhere else. You as the customer have every right to choose where you spend your money, and under capitalism it's the money that does the talking. The problem is, most people aren't willing to spend an extra buck to get better service, so they complain to the government to fix all of their problems.

Just like pilot602 said:

pilot602 said:
Sometimes things just get f'ed up. That's life.
Click to expand...
 
pilot602 said:
And the crew does? Under current Federal law they'd been legal to continue the rest of their flights all delayed by 10 hours. That's really the scary part about this whole story.

I haven't heard (most likely they didn't) one way or the other but legally speaking it would have been okie-dokie.
Click to expand...

Why would drag the flight crew into this? This had to do with the passengers.....
 
PanJet said:
You're right, no customer deserves that, but I have news for you; welcome to America, and welcome to capitalism.

I agree with those who say that everyone wants as much as they can get for as little as possible. Who wouldn't? I do, but I also understand the value of a name and reputation of service in a business, and I'm willing to pay extra to get the quality I'm looking for. Under our system (or the way it's supposed to be), if a company screws up, you tell them what you think by taking your dollar somewhere else. You as the customer have every right to choose where you spend your money, and under capitalism it's the money that does the talking. The problem is, most people aren't willing to spend an extra buck to get better service, so they complain to the government to fix all of their problems.

Just like pilot602 said:
Click to expand...

These type of delays have happened at Northwest & Delta as well.

As to bad service, take your business elsewhere or suck it up, with some exceptions. When those passengers were stuck on the airplane, had they made an attempt to ignore the commands from the Flight Crew, that is considered a Federal Offence, so, yes, the Government needs to get involved.
 
weather delays = SOL

I know, I spent 38hrs (yes 3 8 hours) at LHR waiting for a UA flight back to the states. Talked to several airport officials, all said the same thing...Company's are not responsible for weather delays.
 
mpenguin1 said:
These type of delays have happened at Northwest & Delta as well.

As to bad service, take your business elsewhere or suck it up, with some exceptions...
Click to expand...

I understand people are going to make mistakes, and I should have expanded on it a bit more. It's more about what they do with mistakes that matters. What I should have added is that if a company screws up, you take your business elsewhere, and that lets them know you won't accept that kind of service. If the company is good, they'll fix the problem and earn your business back. If you continue to give them your money, they have no incentive to improve their service except that people think they do and want the government to force them to.
 
mpenguin1 said:
These type of delays have happened at Northwest & Delta as well.
Click to expand...

What does Andy Rooney say again? :)

Delta Travelers Suffer Through Similar JFK Ordeal

(CBS) QUEENS Inside a home in Bayside, Queens on Thursday, two weary, angry you ladies were recovering from what they call their night in hell on Delta Airlines.

On Wednesday night, 17-year-olds Cally Nikolis and Alexandra Moshouris, along with their classmates, were boarding a Delta jet at Kennedy Airport expecting to fly to Greece.

They shot a home video documenting what they thought was going to be a smooth trip. What they got was an agonizing trip to nowhere. What they got was isolation on a plane stuck on a tarmac.

"It was really bad," Nikolis said.

"It was a nightmare," Moshouris added.

They said they were stuck on the plane for up to 11 hours.

You heard that right.

With the plane grounded after severe weather blasted in our area, and no chance to get off, Nikolis and Moshouris said the situation was compounded by little food, little water and little information.

"It's 2:20 in the morning and were still stuck on this (beep) plane," one is heard saying on the video.

Cally's mother, Marie Nikolis, wasn't having any of JetBlue's explanations.

"Shame on them for treating people like that," Marie Nikolis said. "It's not humane to have people enclosed in a confined area for 10 hours."

On Wednesday afternoon, Cally and Alexandra returned to Delta to catch their rescheduled flight to Greece. They had "reservations" in more ways than one.

"I wanna go, but then again I don't want to go. I don't want this to happen again," Cally Nikolis said.

A spokesperson for Delta tells CBS 2 the plane in question on Wednesday night never left the gate and passengers were free to get on and off the plane as they pleased.

By SCOTT RAPOPORT, CBS 2 News

(© MMVII, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.)
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