Airmen as light infantry may hinder AF Mission
- Thread starter surreal1221
- Start date
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
PositionAndHold
Well-Known Member
Jag check your pm's
Funny thing is the AF has been doing this kind of thing for quite a while. I was in from '94-'98 as an Electrical Power Production Specialist. I went to Kuwait at the end of '96 (A few months after the Khobar Towers bombing) for 5 months. We went to Ali Al Saleem AB. We were the first unit to deploy there and we built the first tent city. We were much closer to the border then the Army base down the road. I also was in Korea for my last year, but I was stationed on an Army base and supported a joint Comm mission. There were also a couple guys that were Foward Air Controlers (TACP I think) None of them had ever been stationed at an army base, and one had been in 18 years.
Funny thing is the AF has been doing this kind of thing for quite a while. I was in from '94-'98 as an Electrical Power Production Specialist. I went to Kuwait at the end of '96 (A few months after the Khobar Towers bombing) for 5 months. We went to Ali Al Saleem AB. We were the first unit to deploy there and we built the first tent city. We were much closer to the border then the Army base down the road. I also was in Korea for my last year, but I was stationed on an Army base and supported a joint Comm mission. There were also a couple guys that were Foward Air Controlers (TACP I think) None of them had ever been stationed at an army base, and one had been in 18 years.
Yea man, sounds like a statement somebody with credibility about OIF would make.
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
What?
Let me clarify to you, so that you won't jump to any unfair conclusions.
By the time the clusterbunch began over there, I was already done with my eight years in The Combat Arms, and was already flying airplanes.
What is it about my statement that you didn't like? You're a bit defensive, eh? What is it that ticked you off?
Let me clarify to you, so that you won't jump to any unfair conclusions.
By the time the clusterbunch began over there, I was already done with my eight years in The Combat Arms, and was already flying airplanes.
What is it about my statement that you didn't like? You're a bit defensive, eh? What is it that ticked you off?
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Oh boy. . . welp. Game on!
H46Bubba
Well-Known Member
I can back Lloyd's cred.:bandit:You sound as though you need to had some bad times over there. No one's here to make fun of anyone. It's all healthy doses of sarcasm.
Most of us have been there done that as well. Basically all we're saying is that the Army and Marines need to get their azzez in gear and get the appropriate force levels. Yeah it's the military, but you can't expect to send an AF jet mechanic to two weeks of joint training and expect him to be as combat profficient as those soldiers and Marines are and send them out on patrols or raids or whatever else the brass deams necessary. Not only are they a liability to themselves ,but also to the soldiers they're attached with. It's a bad move and needs to be rectified. I am a rifle and pistol expert, 50cal and NVG qualed. I've been to basic and advanced SERE. I'm trained to work with SpecOps and even performed some stuff I can't discuss the remainder of my life. Even with two weeks of joint combat training which is given by the Army, my azz would get killed in a heartbeat, because that's not my job, that's not what I joined the military to do, and that's not what I'm trained to do!
Sadly those lines are crossed all the time - even inter-service.
I saw 9 18 year-old kids get their hearts broken at my last unit. They all just finished Cavalry Scout training and were all young hard-chargers excited to get into the fight and do their cav scout thing.
Once they arrived at the 101st, it was noted the Division had plenty of cav scouts, but not enough truck drivers. My aviation unit's forward support company happened to need 9 truck drivers, and those poor kids were assigned to us.
There was nothing anyone could do for their morale - they were heart-broken. Their company commander was a buddy of mine and there was nothing he could do for them, except tell them he'd try and get them moved as soon as possible.
Yea, I get the point of each service having its specialty. I would not say guys are being handed M4's and thrown in with the Army though. I know at least us AF trans guys had to complete all kinds of training for over two months (.50 cal, 249, 240, NVG, NAV etc,) and our unit did a great job (the probing for mines with a stick the Army had us do was pretty out there though)
I get the sarcasm and I just of took some of these posts a little too serious. My bad. I was reading my FAR/AIM and drinking vodka because it was boring as hell, so that might of not had me thinking too clear. But whatever, no argument here, just stating a point.
mtsu av8er, no big deal. Thanks for your eight years and good luck with your flying man.
I get the sarcasm and I just of took some of these posts a little too serious. My bad. I was reading my FAR/AIM and drinking vodka because it was boring as hell, so that might of not had me thinking too clear. But whatever, no argument here, just stating a point.
mtsu av8er, no big deal. Thanks for your eight years and good luck with your flying man.
rickyrhodesii
Well-Known Member
Just saw this story on AF.mil. For those interested:
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123039084
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123039084
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
Wow - the "regular" Combat Action Ribbon wasn't enough? You see, for the Air Force, they get extra attaboys for combat . . . .
Does nobody else see the humor in this??
cmsuav8r
Well-Known Member
I would not want to be one of the AF guys put into infantry combat action... not because I'm afraid, but because I feel that they are at a disadvantage with their training. If I were to be in a combat role, I would rather complete either army or marine training because combat is what they do.
PS- I'm not in the military, I'm just going by the stories and things my dad has told me. He was in the Marines from 70-74.
PS- I'm not in the military, I'm just going by the stories and things my dad has told me. He was in the Marines from 70-74.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Is the "regular" Combat Action Ribbon available to be awarded to each branch?
I know a bunch of fellow weather guys that have been assigned to Army units, and they end up losing out on Army ribbons/medals because they were Air Force and the Army leadership either loses the paperwork, or just never gets to it to approve it before the member leaves the Army unit.
Go figure. So now, I think that with this ribbon - Air Force members will be able to get their ribbons a bit faster.
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
I just checked, and I stand corrected. The CAR is a Navy/Marine Corps award. Thank you for pointing that out!
Yea, prior to this we had no combat badge or "award" for most airman except for aviator stuff (wasn't really any ground guys in combat...) The Army started giving us their combat patches and badges in OIF/OEF but the AF leadership was all nuts about us wearing them. I guess this is the answer
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
fiveninerzero
Well-Known Member
I am terribly dissatisfied with the USAF's current indecisiveness. A new uniform with a copy pattern of the ACU (Army Combat Uniform) but with a "for show" Air Force colour scheme. If that isn't bad enough, it has a pen pocket and cell phone pocket! I wonder how many millions that thing cost?
The AF is sending guys every day on tactical missions, but I was told by the Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force himself that the Air Force will not cater for a few thousand operators when there are 300,000 guys that basically sit behind a desk and don't need camoflauge, but at the same time my unit shows up in Iraq on our Army FOB wearing ACU's and some Air Force brass shows up for a "morale visit" and questions why we are wearing a non-AF uniform. Because we don't want to look different and stupid and get shot when we go out! Duh!
The Airman "Barracks" Uniform isn't even going to come with a flak vest cover or kevlar helmet cover, we'll be using the ACU pattern, what a recipe for disaster!
On the topic of Combat patches and the Army recognising AF guys, I have more Army medals than AF medals, I really don't care much for the combat patch, I have two of them, I don't wear them (my career field is the only career field authorised to wear Army patches in 36-2903, and also other career fields attached to my type of squadron) I am not in the Army, I am appreciative of them honouring me, and I recognise the fact that I did good work for them, but out of respect for guys actually in the Army (plus it costs money to sew them on my uniform) I leave it off and keep them in the frame on the wall.
You mention that guys have trouble getting their awards, I know that the AF has a lot of red tape with regards to awards and decs, if you put your troop in for a medal through the S-1/G-1, I guarantee you it will go through Army channels in about 1/5 the time that the AF processes awards.
ASOS's (Air Support Operations Squadrons) have that working relationship with the Army unit they have been historically supporting for the past 30+ years, and now the AF convoy drivers, security forces, EOD, etc. that are doing temporary work for the Army don't know to press their Army channels to get their troops the recognition they deserve. Believe me, the Army does appreciate what the AF does for them, I deal with them daily and we as AF guys carry a tremendous amount of influence as long as we have A-10's, LGB's and JDAMS, so they usually will go the extra mile for us.
My opinion is that we should do away with all patches on our uniform like the Marines, people will cry a lot less over what they don't have, and we need to stop copying everyone else and quit whining about what everyone else has but we don't unless it involves not getting killed or me getting paid more (prime example: the new Combat Action Ribbon, it doesn't even give points for promotion...just another feel good ribbon for somebody to brag about having..)
I am very opinionated, and don't really care if I get flamed.