250 under 10,000

[zmiller4]

the VLJ's will be like a moving road block.

Kind of like a climbing CRJ200?

On the 250 below 10000 question--Socal approach always tells us to maintain 280 when we're well below 10000. Some of them are nice enough to say "maintain 280 when able", but most don't. I wonder how often people just blow through 250? Do you have to gently remind people of the speed restriction often?

 

[Fox Xray]

Kind of like a climbing CRJ200?

On the 250 below 10000 question--Socal approach always tells us to maintain 280 when we're well below 10000. Some of them are nice enough to say "maintain 280 when able", but most don't. I wonder how often people just blow through 250? Do you have to gently remind people of the speed restriction often?

This time of year the CRJ's are manageable ... they climb ok and they take vectors pretty good. During the summer they can be tough to work. It all depends on the sector... sectors where you are taking handoffs from approach and have to climb A/C out of say 10K for FL's is where they really under-perform.

I only work one sector where I get A/C below 10K and that is to feed approach. I don't really worry about the speed below 10K, all I do is restrict them at the arrival fix if approach says something. Approach sometimes just yells over the line ~> 250 KNOTS ! ... that is usually because someone went over the fix at 300+ knots. As I mentioned in an earlier post I only see ground speed, I have no idea what you're indicating. The only way I can tell if someone is cheating is when I'm setting up in-trail spacing or sequencing for arrival. If need be I do gently remind them like you mentioned... the old N1234 verify 250 knots or say airpeed.

 

[Bandit_Driver]

Some airplanes are designed such that they cannot safely comply with the normal speed limits, and they are specifically exempted. I seem to recall the limit for the T-38 was 300 knots. I don't know what it might be for an F-16, but 350 seems to be on the high side.

You may be remembering the test program and Houston's George Bush Intercontinental. That test program has ended, and speed limits are back to normal.
.

That's the program I am thinking of. As far as 350 for the 16's I will double check to make sure it wasn't a "War Story".

 

[fish314]

Another exception for the military is in airspace specifically designated for military training, like MOA's and MTR's (Military operating areas and Military training routes).

This could be of interest to civilian guys, because VFR traffic can fly through a MOA without talking to anyone, but there could be military jets in there going 500 knots indicated. Same thing is true on a low-level training route (MTR) except now that military guy is going faster than 250 indicated at 500' AGL or less.

 

[Beers]

Yup, and that's why we use the speeds we do. We've got so many variations in the fleet that we've just taken the lowest possible numbers for any of our Navajo/Chieftains and use them across the board.

It'd sure be a lot easier to fly if we could cross the FAF at 150.

Slight hijack, but I'm curious as to what some of the differences are between a Navajo and Chieftain. I have no time in either and have always been curious.

 

[jtrain609]

Different usable fuel amounts, different HP outputs of the engines (because of different sized turbo's), generally a different electrical system, number of stall strips on the right wing, elevator trim positions for takeoff, length (The Chieftain is 2 feet longer), number of seats when in a passanger configuration, gross weight, number calipers on the brakes on the mains, suck open doors in case of turbo failure on the Navajo, speeds, power settings...uhm...I'm gonna stop listing difference, I could go on for a while.

 

[Bandit_Driver]

just got the word for an F-16 IP. They are allowed to go 300 KIAS below 10K.

 

[kellwolf]

Same for arrival -- they might not be aware that we're going to be unable to get much under 170kts indicated before touchdown!

I always wondered where MEM approach got "Maintain 170 kts until the marker." That makes sense since you guys are probably barrelling in behind us.

On behalf of the RJ drivers, I'm sorry our plane sucks at high altitudes and during the summer. It's Canadian.

 

[Mike734]

Pilots routinely exceed 250 in Europe. All you do is ask for "high speed" and, if they can, they will approve it. I have been in the jumpseat of a Sabena 737 doing 330 at 3000AGL on a extended arc, base to final. It makes for an interesting approach.

 

[staplegun]

Years ago had an approach controller at LGA tell us, "tailwinds authorized!"

Kevin

 

[seagull]

Pilots routinely exceed 250 in Europe. All you do is ask for "high speed" and, if they can, they will approve it. I have been in the jumpseat of a Sabena 737 doing 330 at 3000AGL on a extended arc, base to final. It makes for an interesting approach.

Not just Europe. The entire World outside the U.S., pretty much, with just a couple of exceptions. In Canada there is not a speed restriction above 3000' on departure, as I recall. They have one on arrival, though. In most of the world, ATC can authorize higher speeds.

 

[Seggy]

A little off topic but...

I LOVE this forum.


Great discussions going on here!

 

[Goonie]

Guess you love when I fly the Golden Eagle at FL210!!
HA!!