Pinnacle Hiring Low Time Pilots?

Higney...

First off... I always feel like I'm in trouble when someone starts a discussion with "First off...". ;)

Seriously... apologies for the name... I made a phonetical error... thanks for fixing it.

And I'm about the last guy to make anything into any sort of war... you make some great points... my only dispute still comes from the supposed 250 hour ATP guys. If one completes ATP's program with the BARE minimum hours... then you graduate with @ 240 hours. So... what I'm hearing you tell me is that guys from ATP are getting on at PCL with no real world instructing or any other type of experience outside of primary training. That just doesn't jive with anything I've seen or heard from ATP... and I'm not seeing anybody on their "hired" list that says they made it to Pinnacle in 3 months after starting training in ATP's ACPP program.

In addition... ATP doesn't even let their own instructors do the RJ program to make use of the letters of agreement until they hit the reduced mins of 500TT.

I'm wondering if these guys had an internship with PCL... that would certainly make more sense to me. Can you find that information out?

Bob
 
Don't know the background of the 330hr pilot, but apparently got hired.
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Shouldn't have IMO. The guy doesnt even meet 135 VFR mins to fly air tours over Lake Powell in a 172 but sure can fly that RJ.
 
Captain Bob- I am sorry if that came off harsh, really didnt mean anything by it. For some reason my name always ends up wrong! Anyway, I personally know a 250 hour guy. He told me it cost him $60K and he did everything from his instrument through MEI there on the fast track and interviewed just after completing the program. I do not know the entire story behind it, and will ask politely next time I see him. I do know the other ATP guys had less than 500TT, one of which did not make it up to sims (not sure what happened though in his defense). The majority of my class was in the 1000 hour range. There were some furloughs from other regionals with more time (2000 ish) and a couple of the gulfstreamers in the 500-600 hour range. The guy in my crashpad is sitting next to me as I type this up, he did ATP and was hired at 335TT. He said at his open interviews 10 of 12 were hired ranging in hours from 300-500. Beyond this info and previous info in this post I know nothing about ATP. I am just saying my first hand knowledge. My crash pad bud did mention that these numbers were initial hire interview totals. By the time classes actually started some had a little more time (one guy went from 300 to over 500 hours). moral of the story- Pinnacle Hires Low Time Pilots! What I still cannot fathom though is this, PNCL is struggling to fill classes yet is going after the academy guys instead of guys that went the instructor route and have a bit more time (in some cases 2x or more)? Some things I guess just make too much sense for the airline world!
 
higney85 said:
What I still cannot fathom though is this, PNCL is struggling to fill classes yet is going after the academy guys instead of guys that went the instructor route and have a bit more time (in some cases 2x or more)? Some things I guess just make too much sense for the airline world!
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Read my previous post in this thread for an answer...
 
higney85 said:
The guy in my crashpad is sitting next to me as I type this up, he did ATP and was hired at 335TT.... My crash pad bud did mention that these numbers were initial hire interview totals. By the time classes actually started some had a little more time (one guy went from 300 to over 500 hours).
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That's making more sense to me know... Interviews can be and have been done well before the mins were met. I think Skywest will actually interview ATP guys around 850TT and offer them conditional offers of employment... conditional meaning that they have to meet the mins of 1000TT before starting with them...

That being said... I'm thinking that I owe you a big apology Higney... I just read Pinnacle's Letter of Agreement with ATP, signed by their Chief Pilot... and I'm not seeing ANY mins for ATP grads.

Pinnacle LOA said:
1. The applicant may apply at any time during their student term.
2. We will interview periodically and make job offers on campus at the time of the interview.
3. The student must complete the entire program before they will be considered qualified for the position and must meet all academic, flight time and performance indices in order to satisfy the job offer.
4. All job offers are contingent upon the successful completion of the course and meeting all our hiring criteria.
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So... depending on what PCL's "hiring criteria" are... and based on that letter... it would appear that it is indeed a possiblity that someone could come out of ATP's training right into ground school at PCL...

What's your buddy's name? Where is he on this list?

Pinnacle LOA and ATP hiring placements with Pinnacle June 2006 - January 2007

(You have to scroll down past the letter to get to the guys who were hired)

Bob
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Read my previous post in this thread for an answer...
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Max... I see your point... up to a point... ;)

Most airlines do not allow 1st year guys (newest, lowest paid) to vote on contracts. By the time they've made it through the first year... most know the score in the big game.

Also... most first year guys are not making double what they made instructing... It's more likely they are making the same or less their first year.

Bob
 
Captain_Bob said:
Max... I see your point... up to a point... ;)

Most airlines do not allow 1st year guys (newest, lowest paid) to vote on contracts. By the time they've made it through the first year... most know the score in the big game.

Also... most first year guys are not making double what they made instructing... It's more likely they are making the same or less their first year.

Bob
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Point taken. But I believe some (not all) look at their employment with PCL as "time building". Which is why they attrition is so high in the FO ranks.

So they don't care about the crappy contract because they will be off to what they hope are better companies with better pay/work rules.

And they're just happy to be there with 300/50!
 
The persons maturity and life experience should be taken into consideration too. Who is more valuable in the cockpit? The guy with 1000hrs flying in the same practice area and never venturing more than 100 miles away from the home airport and started flying right out of high school or the guy who is 28yo and spent 6 years as a flight engineer in the military but only has 400hrs but did it at ATP with real cross country experience.
 
I dunno man, I'm making about three times as much as I was flight instructing and I'm just flying freight. Pinnacle would have been about twice as much.
 
subpilot said:
The persons maturity and life experience should be taken into consideration too. Who is more valuable in the cockpit? The guy with 1000hrs flying in the same practice area and never venturing more than 100 miles away from the home airport and started flying right out of high school or the guy who is 28yo and spent 6 years as a flight engineer in the military but only has 400hrs but did it at ATP with real cross country experience.
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This doesn't always work, though. We had a guy at our flight school who was in his 40's, accomplished in life, had thousands of hours of back-seat time in the Navy and had seen lots of emergencies, etc, but really struggled with a lot of his training. He was no worse, though, than some of the guys that I saw coming out of ATP. I really don't think that there's any substitute for experience, period. In an interview, they can tell if someone can fly a sim or not, if they can learn an airplane, and a little bit about their personality. Having some time without getting in a lot of trouble says at least a little about their experience level.

Having 1000hrs and going to an airliner is way on the low end. I honestly don't think that my airline's training department would ever go for reduced mins, other than their "agreement" with ATP for interviewing at 850. These airlines that are bringing in 300hr guys are basically telling their captains that they're on their own.
 
zmiller4 said:
Having 1000hrs and going to an airliner is way on the low end. I honestly don't think that my airline's training department would ever go for reduced mins, other than their "agreement" with ATP for interviewing at 850. These airlines that are bringing in 300hr guys are basically telling their captains that they're on their own.
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Hey maybe this regional gig ain't so bad, that's pretty much single pilot in a CRJ. Hmm...and I thought the Metro was going to be intense...
 
"I really don't think that there's any substitute for experience, period"

"Having 1000hrs and going to an airliner is way on the low end. I honestly don't think that my airline's training department would ever go for reduced mins, other than their "agreement" with ATP for interviewing at 850. These airlines that are bringing in 300hr guys are basically telling their captains that they're on their own"

Agreed. This whole idea of continuly lowering the bar to put people in the seats at the meger price the regionals are willing to pay just doesn't set well with me. There are many at this site that think it's a great idea. More opportunites for more people with less time. Get on that list sooner. More experience doesn't matter, min standard is fine...

I just don't like it. Glad it's never gonna be my problem.
 
I personally think its the marketing propaganda from the schools that the hiring will end soon. They put this image out that if you dont get there tomorrow, you'll be SOL because the airlines are going to stop hiring all at the same time.

BS. There will always be ups and downs in flying. I used to hear this 3-4 years ago that you better get in or else. I just cant agree with that frame of mind.
 
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