250 under 10,000

We only use 26" for cruise, so we're pretty slow compared to you guys. We also have to be at 120 by the gate so we've gotta plan accordingly, and we can't put our gear out until 125 knots.

After talking with a few Starcheckers about your Chieftains I realized that we fly DRASTICALLY different profiles.
 
jtrain609 said:
We only use 26" for cruise, so we're pretty slow compared to you guys. We also have to be at 120 by the gate so we've gotta plan accordingly, and we can't put our gear out until 125 knots.

After talking with a few Starcheckers about your Chieftains I realized that we fly DRASTICALLY different profiles.
Click to expand...


Really?? I wonder why they want you guys flying so much slower? Also how come you cant drop the wheels till 125, i'm guessing thats a profile thing correct?

I do understand the 120 knot thing, you guys fly much harder approaches than us and I'm guessing you want to be a bit more stabilized prior to FAF.
 
meritflyer said:
Whats wrong with the PC12?
Click to expand...


The guys in the tower at my old flight school used to have us up all the time, and they said it's got an approach speed like a 172. He said they would plan for it to do something much faster and then it goes and slows waaay down.... really screwed up the sequencing at the airport I guess.
 
Doug Taylor said:
Say I'm flying an aircraft that has a clean speed of 258 knots without slats. Do we need to tell anyone that, drop the slats and climb at 250 or is 8 knots not that big of a deal?
Click to expand...

The speed is authorized due to the aircraft performance, and you're not required to notify ATC. I have flown with a few folks that like to notify ATC as a courtesy, and that may not be a bad technique.







.
 
meritflyer said:
Whats wrong with the PC12?
Click to expand...

It is just the ultimate fly in the ointment... especially in the center environment. The plane is sloooooooooooow... especially for the altitude it flies at. They seem to always fly at a bad altitude, FL220, FL230, in that range. Those can be PITA altitudes for us, generally FL230 is an altitude where sectors are split (high/low), flying right at that boundary altitude is a PITA, lots of traffic is climbing and descending through that altitude at far higher speeds.

It always seems that when you are working a PC12 it's in the way.
 
Yup, and that's why we use the speeds we do. We've got so many variations in the fleet that we've just taken the lowest possible numbers for any of our Navajo/Chieftains and use them across the board.

It'd sure be a lot easier to fly if we could cross the FAF at 150.
 
Ah ok, to be honest I didn't realize there was a real difference in Navajo/Chieftain. Thanks for the info.
 
Fox Xray said:
It is just the ultimate fly in the ointment... especially in the center environment. The plane is sloooooooooooow... especially for the altitude it flies at. They seem to always fly at a bad altitude, FL220, FL230, in that range. Those can be PITA altitudes for us, generally FL230 is an altitude where sectors are split (high/low), flying right at that boundary altitude is a PITA, lots of traffic is climbing and descending through that altitude at far higher speeds.

It always seems that when you are working a PC12 it's in the way.
Click to expand...


Huh... For a turboprop, I always thought it was fast (270 KTS). I guess it sucks when you also get a King Air, Meridian, TBM, or Lancair up there. I bet ATC loves it when I file for FL200 in my C182T when it trues out at 170-180!

BTW, what it PITA?
 
Fox X-Ray

According the F-16 Driver I used to fly he said that they were allowed 350 KIAS below 10...

I also beleive there was a test program a while back around the DFW area that allowed controllers to authorized speeds above 250 below 10...
 
meritflyer said:
Huh... For a turboprop, I always thought it was fast (270 KTS). I guess it sucks when you also get a King Air, Meridian, TBM, or Lancair up there. I bet ATC loves it when I file for FL200 in my C182T when it trues out at 170-180!

BTW, what it PITA?
Click to expand...

I don't see as many of the other slow A/C up around FL200 and above as I see the PC12's ... not sure why.

PITA = Pain In The A**
 
Doug Taylor said:
Ooh, here's a question for you on the topic.

Say I'm flying an aircraft that has a clean speed of 258 knots without slats. Do we need to tell anyone that, drop the slats and climb at 250 or is 8 knots not that big of a deal?
Click to expand...

Tony is correct. Personally, I notify them if I think ATC may not be aware of how fast we're going and appears to be putting us behind slower traffic. If we're heavy and doing almost 290 kts, they might not realize that we are moving that much faster than that 737 or RJ. Especially as we push over to 355 indicated at 10k. Same for arrival -- they might not be aware that we're going to be unable to get much under 170kts indicated before touchdown!

There is a caveat to the rule, though. If you have a clearance restriction of 250 kts (such as they often give you out of the SFO area airports), or, if there is a similar restriction on the SID, then you need to comply or request clearance to go faster.
 
Bandit_Driver said:
Fox X-Ray

According the F-16 Driver I used to fly he said that they were allowed 350 KIAS below 10...

I also beleive there was a test program a while back around the DFW area that allowed controllers to authorized speeds above 250 below 10...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info on the military flights, my source that gave me the original info is not the most reliable.

You are right about the test program, I think it was a few years back and is no longer in use ... I remember Natca was not hot on the idea after it ran for a while because the controllers hated it. I'm sure there are pilots on here that flew during it.
 
Fox Xray said:
It is just the ultimate fly in the ointment... especially in the center environment. The plane is sloooooooooooow... especially for the altitude it flies at. They seem to always fly at a bad altitude, FL220, FL230, in that range. Those can be PITA altitudes for us, generally FL230 is an altitude where sectors are split (high/low), flying right at that boundary altitude is a PITA, lots of traffic is climbing and descending through that altitude at far higher speeds.

It always seems that when you are working a PC12 it's in the way.
Click to expand...

Are you looking forward to a torrent of weekend warriors filing FL350 in their VLJ at mach .65? :)
 
Bandit_Driver said:
According the F-16 Driver I used to fly he said that they were allowed 350 KIAS below 10...

I also beleive there was a test program a while back around the DFW area that allowed controllers to authorized speeds above 250 below 10...
Click to expand...

Some airplanes are designed such that they cannot safely comply with the normal speed limits, and they are specifically exempted. I seem to recall the limit for the T-38 was 300 knots. I don't know what it might be for an F-16, but 350 seems to be on the high side.


You may be remembering the test program and Houston's George Bush Intercontinental. That test program has ended, and speed limits are back to normal.






.
 
"Lanna 'proach, 8 nina one sugar pop looking for an approach with the optino on 26R..."
 
Fox Xray said:
Thanks for the info on the military flights, my source that gave me the original info is not the most reliable.
Click to expand...

Straight from the military basic flying rules bible, AFI 11-202V3, as far as speed goes:
5.7.5. FAA Speed Authorization. The FAA recognizes that certain military operations and training requirements cannot be met under the terms of the FAR 91.117, Aircraft Speed, and has therefore granted a speed authorization. The authorization grants an exception to aircraft having flight characteristics
that preclude safe operations at speeds below 250 KIAS by providing that if the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed, the aircraft may be operated at the minimum safe speed.

Of course there are a bunch of other conditions that go along with it that I wont bother to post. There were more instances where we were allowed to speed that are no longer allowed (one that stricks out is a formation rejoin after takeoff in the tanker used to require flying 280 until rejoined but no longer unless specifically requested, or at least that was the case last time i did it a couple years back).
 
Doug Taylor said:
Are you looking forward to a torrent of weekend warriors filing FL350 in their VLJ at mach .65? :)
Click to expand...

These are going to be the worst to deal with to date. Supposedly there are a ton of orders for these things. Some of the models are said to be able to cruise at or close to FL410... can you imagine ??? At least with the PC12's and the like they cruise at altitudes where everyone is slow, we just have vector around them, the VLJ's will be like a moving road block.
 
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