Pinnacle Hiring Low Time Pilots?

Comair 100ER

Comair 100ER

Well-Known Member
I have a friend who was just in upgrade training for a regional airline, and while he was at the training facility they had pilots interviewing. A lot of them were jumping ship from TSA and Pinnacle. They told him that PNCL was so desperate that they were taking pilots with as low as roughly 350TT and 50mel and even less if you went through a bridge program or Purdue, UND, etc. If there are any Flagshippers out there, have you witnessed this at all? This seems a bit too low. If they are, are they accepting pilots from part 61 schools? And why is it so bad over there? It seems like a decent place to work with quick upgrades. Thanks in advance!
 
They hired a guy here at UND with 280 TT. He just came in and spoke to my ground school class.

Comair 100ER said:
I have a friend who was just in upgrade training for a regional airline, and while he was at the training facility they had pilots interviewing. A lot of them were jumping ship from TSA and Pinnacle. They told him that PNCL was so desperate that they were taking pilots with as low as roughly 350TT and 50mel and even less if you went through a bridge program or Purdue, UND, etc. If there are any Flagshippers out there, have you witnessed this at all? This seems a bit too low. If they are, are they accepting pilots from part 61 schools? And why is it so bad over there? It seems like a decent place to work with quick upgrades. Thanks in advance!
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Comair 100ER said:
I have a friend who was just in upgrade training for a regional airline, and while he was at the training facility they had pilots interviewing. A lot of them were jumping ship from TSA and Pinnacle. They told him that PNCL was so desperate that they were taking pilots with as low as roughly 350TT and 50mel and even less if you went through a bridge program or Purdue, UND, etc. If there are any Flagshippers out there, have you witnessed this at all? This seems a bit too low. If they are, are they accepting pilots from part 61 schools? And why is it so bad over there? It seems like a decent place to work with quick upgrades. Thanks in advance!
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Duuhhhh! :)
 
Kellwolf flies for PCL. He'll chime in on this. I've heard they're hiring a ton then I heard they're cancelling classes.

Who knows...
 
I agree with you. He was pretty arrogant during his talk and said that during training he was bored out of his mind because everything was review. He said he went back to his power points from the CRJ class UND offers and found that those powerpoints often covered the same if not more information then Pinnacle was teaching.

I asked him a ton of questions but he sort of avoided what I was looking for. I asked him if he ever considered going Part 61. He said he did, and he also considered going to ERAU but didn't. He didnt tell me why he decided against part 61 etc. I asked him what gave him the idea to apply when the mins for und were 500. He basically said at worse they could of said no. He knew everyone thought he was crazy but he wanted the interview practice.

SmitteyB said:
In now way does he belong in the cockpit.
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SmitteyB said:
In no way does he belong in the cockpit.
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But we do know why regional airlines hire such low pilots, right? Because like a virgin getting his first piece (most, but not all) low time pilots are just happy to be there.

Because they're making maybe double what they did as a CFI and plus they're flying a jet! The company loves it because these new people tend to be more willing to vote in concessionary contracts.

Because they're just "time-building" their way to the top and again, just happy to be there making more than they did while instructing. Never thinking that they're hurting themselves, their careers and future income potential and QOL in the long run!
 
As a pretty new pcl FO I can say that I had some low timers in my class. I still consider low time to be what I was hired at (about 1000) but there were some 250-500 hour guys in my class. A couple didnt make it through. I have flown with captains who ask the question "what did you do before PCL" spring loaded for the ATP response. I have nothing against ATP, but 250 hours is too low in my opinion. I am all for bridge programs b/c it was a big step for me a few months ago going for the college world to the real world with a 121 job thrown in. I have been trying to get a couple buddies hired and the only one I could get an interview for had over 1200 hours. The other is just over the 600/100 mark and in losing out to the 250 hour wonders. The captains who have been vocal about ATP complain that for the first year the low timers are still in learning mode, as opposed to adapt mode by someone who was instructing or flying at a level lower than a 121 atmosphere. Obviously many of the guys are able to do the job, because this low-time program has been around for a while now. The industry is supply and demand, and right now I think its a little out of whack and is a bit too influenced by PFJ programs. PCL has been struggling to fill classes, but if you wanna go somewhere where you can fly alot it works pretty good. I am averaging 60 hours a month just out of the school house and on the bottom of the call list being on reserve. I can only recall a couple days now where I have not had a trip (although the trips are typically the short hop high speeds). I hope that answers the questions to the original poster. It is screwed up in my opinion.
 
ZUKO said:
...said that during training he was bored out of his mind because everything was review. He said he went back to his power points from the CRJ class UND offers and found that those powerpoints often covered the same if not more information then Pinnacle was teaching.
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:confused: Is there something wrong with that:confused:
 
well if they are looking for pilots with 1000 TT and they can't get anything, what are they supposed to do other then lower mins?
 
higney85 said:
I have nothing against ATP, but 250 hours is too low in my opinion.
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Highney...

You aren't seeing ATP guys getting hired at 250... I believe the original post was referring to guys coming from "bridge" programs from Purdue, UND, etc... and possibly from other "bridge" type programs like the very one you attended. But your arguements about captains responding negatively about the "ATP 250 hour wonders" just doesn't hold water.

ATP's mins for interviewing are in the range of 500-850 hours depending on the airline hiring... with many actually starting with the airline with 600-1000. No one that I've seen has been hired below that... and certainly not in the 250 range that you keep referring too ATP guys coming into PCL at... unless they interned at PCL.

AE's letter of agreement does state that they will hire an ATP grad with 400TT however they must have a minimum of 200Multi in order for the 400 mins to apply.

I flew with a 7 year Captain at XJT in this past November... He had 400 hours and 50 multi when he got hired... but he also had to pay $12,000 to COEX for his training there. Low timers aren't "new" to the industry. The way I see it... airlines are on the rebound... mins come down.

ATP certainly didn't have any "Letters of Agreement" with ANY airline around 9/11... not many flight schools did. Now... the economy has rebounded... airlines are starting to make money... and now ATP has Letters of Agreement with 8 different airlines... and airline "bridge" programs are in abundance at many university flight departments. Hmmmm.... ;)

Bob
 
They're hiring at 280 hours!?!?!?! I NEED TO GET MY APPLICATION IN! THIS IS MY CHANCE TO FINALLY FLY A JET!
 
Captain_Bob said:
The way I see it... airlines are on the rebound... mins come down.
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Not really Bob. If the airlines were rebounding, mins would be going up, not down. If majors were rebounding, RJs wouldn't be parking on mainline gates (sickening). Surf a.net for places like LGA in the 70/80s then compare the size of aircraft to the last 24 months. It ain't comin back this time (not with US livery aircraft). Something is BAD wrong when mainline is flying 737s on short hauls (<500nm) and RJs are flying the >1500nm legs.
 
Captain_Bob said:
Higney...

You aren't seeing ATP guys getting hired at 250... I believe the original post was referring to guys coming from "bridge" programs from Purdue, UND, etc... and possibly from other "bridge" type programs like the very one you attended. But your arguements about captains responding negatively about the "ATP 250 hour wonders" just doesn't hold water.

ATP's mins for interviewing are in the range of 500-850 hours depending on the airline hiring... with many actually starting with the airline with 600-1000. No one that I've seen has been hired below that... and certainly not in the 250 range that you keep referring too ATP guys coming into PCL at... unless they interned at PCL.

AE's letter of agreement does state that they will hire an ATP grad with 400TT however they must have a minimum of 200Multi in order for the 400 mins to apply.

I flew with a 7 year Captain at XJT in this past November... He had 400 hours and 50 multi when he got hired... but he also had to pay $12,000 to COEX for his training there. Low timers aren't "new" to the industry. The way I see it... airlines are on the rebound... mins come down.

ATP certainly didn't have any "Letters of Agreement" with ANY airline around 9/11... not many flight schools did. Now... the economy has rebounded... airlines are starting to make money... and now ATP has Letters of Agreement with 8 different airlines... and airline "bridge" programs are in abundance at many university flight departments. Hmmmm.... ;)

Bob
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First off.. I fixed the name...


I did not do any bridge program, I happened to have some previous instructors at pinnacle, and being from memphis pinnacle happened to fit many different aspects of my life.

I had the opportunity to use Middle Tennessee State University's new bridge program with AE when I graduated in august, it was 500TT/100multi at the time with an FMS class and a 1900FTD class. I was there and almost went through the process, but pinnacle was a higher choice on my list.

PNCL IS HIRING 250 HOUR GUYS FROM ATP! I have met them, and they were in my new hire class just a few months ago. The current hiring spree has been with ATP, UND, and a few other schools. As far as what captains are saying- I am but a messenger repeating what I am hearing. I think 250 hours is not the problem- look at those flying fighters in the military, and many other programs yielding low time but good pilots. My issue is the type of training done in 250 hours. If you fly around the patch doing maneuvers, shoot the same instrument approaches repeatedly, and do the same XC's the amount training can become a bit dull. Just look at the logbooks, you do your pvt (approx 60 hours), another 50 or so for an IFR ticket, maneuvers and some VFR XC's for the comm, then a multi add-on, then some XC IFR multi time building... not too long before you hit 250. But its supply and demand and the guy in the left seat is experienced, the guy in the right will be up to speed in a hurry. I am sure a 1000 hour guy who has 750 hours in the FO seat is quite a bit better flying the RJ than a guy with 1000 hours and only 250 in the seat as an FO, but by the time you hit 3000 hours and the left seat it doesnt matter much. What scares me at PNCL is the talk of 1800 hour captains, down from 3000. While I know that there are many 1800 hour people who are already captains and doing a great job, I cannot see myself feeling fully confident in being captain in about 1 year from now. I have only been here for a couple months, most flights are rather routine and the surprises are few- but there have been many times where the question of "is that legal?" "is that right" "whats it doing". Maybe a year from now I will feel differently, but at this point I just do my job to the best of my ability, safely, and learn all I can. If I do not feel confident I can safely do the job I won't upgrade, I have a year and a half however I like it just to hit the age 23 min, but what could happen with an 1800 hour captain and a 250 hour FO when crap hits the fan and neither one has experienced a time to see a senior captain's example of making a decision? When the 1800 captain looks to his left all he sees is himself... Thats where the experience in the air comes into play... Don't let this be any kind of war- I am just expressing my opinions which come from my little experience compared to many people on this board who have more jet PIC time than I may ever have.
 
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