logging sim time
- Thread starter taseal
- Start date
bdhill1979
Gone West
Not towards total time, sim instrument and dual recieved only.
tgrayson
New Member
14 CFR 61.1(b)(12)
(12) Pilot time means that time in which a person -
(i) Serves as a required pilot flight crewmember;
(ii) Receives training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device; or
(iii) Gives training as an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device.
bdhill1979
Gone West
Is it the Garmin Flightbook? Mine logs sim instrument as simulator time and I cant find a way to change it.
taseal
Well-Known Member
yeah it is, i just log them separetly.
sorry to be ignorantbut is that pilot time total time or dual time?
OT, but I was just on the phone with my gf... My real estator is a 50 year old person and she asked me something about a phone she was going to get... well my gf has been checking my emails because 'she doesnt trust me' and she started questioning me about her... i'm kinda getting creeped out now... wow :whatever:
tgrayson
New Member
There is no such category as "Total Time", according to the FAA. Total Time is just something we pilots talk about.
The closest parallels in FAA-speak are "Pilot Time" and "Flight Time". You really have to read the regs carefully to see which of those two interest them for any particular purpose. When you fill out an 8710 form, they ask for "Pilot Time".
Flight time cannot include time spent with a Flight Training Device.
The "Total" column in your logbook can be "Pilot Time" or "Flight Time", or something that you invent, but just make sure you know how to derive Pilot Time and Flight Time from those numbers. For simplicity's sake, most pilots seem to limit the total column to Flight Time.
Make sense?
sim instrument....? wouldnt' or shouldn't it be under 'simulator'? I blieve in my logbook there is a simulator/ftd column and a simulated instrument column. same but different?
dc3flyer
Well-Known Member
I do not log sim time as dual received, total time or simulated instrument. I only log it as simulator (FTD) time.
Simulated instrument time is when you are flying a plane in VFR conditions under a hood of some sort. In a sim, you can fly it in "VFR" conditions if you have a monitor, so logging it all as simulated instrument time would not make sense.
Simulated instrument time is when you are flying a plane in VFR conditions under a hood of some sort. In a sim, you can fly it in "VFR" conditions if you have a monitor, so logging it all as simulated instrument time would not make sense.
taseal
Well-Known Member
There is no such category as "Total Time", according to the FAA. Total Time is just something we pilots talk about.
The closest parallels in FAA-speak are "Pilot Time" and "Flight Time". You really have to read the regs carefully to see which of those two interest them for any particular purpose. When you fill out an 8710 form, they ask for "Pilot Time".
Flight time cannot include time spent with a Flight Training Device.
The "Total" column in your logbook can be "Pilot Time" or "Flight Time", or something that you invent, but just make sure you know how to derive Pilot Time and Flight Time from those numbers. For simplicity's sake, most pilots seem to limit the total column to Flight Time.
Make sense?
what is the diff between pilot time and flight time?
bdhill1979
Gone West
tgrayson
New Member
This is defined in Part 1:
Flight time means:
(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing; or
(2) For a glider without self-launch capability, pilot time that commences when the glider is towed for the purpose of flight and ends when the glider comes to rest after landing.
Basically, it's pilot time without sim time.
simulator for ir rating, You Bet. Shoot even for pt61 commercial you can count 50 hours of simulator time towards the 250 hrs needed.
61.129.....something (i) I think....
bdhill1979
Gone West
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Whoa. Especially in the case of logging sim time, there is a difference between what the regulations permit and what people to as a matter of keeping their records straight.
As tgrayson correctlty pointed out with references to the defintions, there is no such thing as "total time." There is total "flight" time and total "pilot" time. As the defintitons indicate, "pilot" time includes sim time, but "flight" time requires a real aircraft.
From a 61.51 standpoint, sim time is sim time, simulatred instrument time (if that's what you were doing) and "instruction received" (if you were receiving instruiction), and counts to your "pilot time" totals.
But it is =not= "simulatend instrument in =flight= time," nor "=flight= instruction received," nor does it count toward you "total duriation of =flight=" logbook netry.
People handle the simulated instrument and instruiction received entries differently. In some cases, the logbook gives a recommendation. If the column is labeld "flight" you should probably only put "flight" entries in it. Otherwise, there are two prevailing methods of keeping the records.
Some pilots will include sim time in those instruction and sim inetrument columns and subtract the sim time when calculating flight totals (like for a job that asks for flight time, insurance, or an 8710). Others will keep those columns for "flight" entries and add he sim time when calculating a total that asks for them.
Examples:
1. Sim separate. Hood time + actual instrument + sim time = total instrument time.
2. Sim time included. Simulated instrument time + actual instrument - sim time = total instrument flight time.
Both ways are correct so long as you (1) make clear what you are doing and (2) are consistent in the way you do it.
As tgrayson correctlty pointed out with references to the defintions, there is no such thing as "total time." There is total "flight" time and total "pilot" time. As the defintitons indicate, "pilot" time includes sim time, but "flight" time requires a real aircraft.
From a 61.51 standpoint, sim time is sim time, simulatred instrument time (if that's what you were doing) and "instruction received" (if you were receiving instruiction), and counts to your "pilot time" totals.
But it is =not= "simulatend instrument in =flight= time," nor "=flight= instruction received," nor does it count toward you "total duriation of =flight=" logbook netry.
People handle the simulated instrument and instruiction received entries differently. In some cases, the logbook gives a recommendation. If the column is labeld "flight" you should probably only put "flight" entries in it. Otherwise, there are two prevailing methods of keeping the records.
Some pilots will include sim time in those instruction and sim inetrument columns and subtract the sim time when calculating flight totals (like for a job that asks for flight time, insurance, or an 8710). Others will keep those columns for "flight" entries and add he sim time when calculating a total that asks for them.
Examples:
1. Sim separate. Hood time + actual instrument + sim time = total instrument time.
2. Sim time included. Simulated instrument time + actual instrument - sim time = total instrument flight time.
Both ways are correct so long as you (1) make clear what you are doing and (2) are consistent in the way you do it.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Yup, so long as you don't end up counting it toward dual "flight" training requirements.
taseal
Well-Known Member
I see...
so when we use the world Total time, we are looking at flight time or pilot time?
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Heck, how should I know what you mean when you use it? From the FAA's standpoint, tgrayson already answered that question. From the FAA's standpoint there is no such thing as "Total Time." There's total "flight" time and total "pilot" time Which one the FAA is asking you to count will be clear in the regulation that gives the requirements you are trying to meet.
61.129(a) [Commercial Requirements]
Except as provided in paragraph (i) of this section, a person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating must log at least 250 hours of flight time as a pilot that consists of at least...
61.159(a) [ATP Requirements]
Except as provided in paragraphs (b), (c), and (d) of this section, a person who is applying for an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category and class rating must have at least 1,500 hours of total time as a pilot that includes at least
One reg is asking for total flight time; the other for the broader total pilot time.
"Total Time" is something folks use to mean whatever they want it to and, based on seeing numerous discussion on the exact same subject, it was probably purposely invented to confuse people. It doesn't seem to have any other purpose.