my nonpilot friend logging hours

taseal

taseal

Well-Known Member
I have a friend with me who log hours as SIC while we fly... he hopes to get his PPL sometime this year... now when the time comes, can he add those (pre certified times being SIC) as TT? I told him sure he could, but now I'm not so sure so I thought I ask :)

can someone log hours as SIC before getting a PPL and use them for TT when/after he gets his PPL?
 
Uhh.. does the plane require two crewmembers? With some general exceptions, that's the only time someone would log Second In Command time.

Are you a flight instructor? Are you providing instruction while you fly?
 
taseal said:
I have a friend with me who log hours as SIC while we fly... he hopes to get his PPL sometime this year... now when the time comes, can he add those (pre certified times being SIC) as TT? I told him sure he could, but now I'm not so sure so I thought I ask :)

can someone log hours as SIC before getting a PPL and use them for TT when/after he gets his PPL?
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No.

How can someone who has no pilot certificate log SIC in an aircraft certificated for one pilot?

Sorry, but that has to be one of the funniest questions yet. :)
 
meritflyer said:
No.

How can someone who has no pilot certificate log SIC in an aircraft certificated for one pilot?

Sorry, but that has to be one of the funniest questions yet. :)
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I have no clue... I thought I ask...

there are funny/stupid questions all the time, guess I have contributed :)

I didn't know you cant log SIC in a plane that doesnt need a SIC...

so if my pilot friend and I go flying and he is flying the plane and i'm helping him with radios and all, I can't log SIC?

I guess since he is not certified to do the radios or anything or fly the plane he cant log SIC.... :(

ok guess I admit that was a stupid question :wall:
 
Nope. The only time someone can log SIC is for a plane that requires two appropriately rated crewmembers or an appropriately rated safety pilot (flying under the hood).

Dont worry. I have, do, and will continue to ask dumb questions. :)
 
meritflyer said:
Nope. The only time someone can log SIC is for a plane that requires two appropriately rated crewmembers or an appropriately rated safety pilot (flying under the hood).

Dont worry. I have, do, and will continue to ask dumb questions. :)
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so the funny ones are my job then? :p
 
taseal said:
so if my pilot friend and I go flying and he is flying the plane and i'm helping him with radios and all, I can't log SIC?
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If he is under the hood and you are acting as his safely pilot, you can act as PIC and you can both log PIC.
 
meritflyer said:
Nope. The only time someone can log SIC is for a plane that requires two appropriately rated crewmembers or an appropriately rated safety pilot (flying under the hood).
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Or if required by company OPSPECS which is pretty unlikely in a rental. Thats how these single pilot ops like Keylime put PFTrs in the right seat and log SIC.
 
aussieflyer said:
Or if required by company OPSPECS which is pretty unlikely in a rental. Thats how these single pilot ops like Keylime put PFTrs in the right seat and log SIC.
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Sorry, but that isn't correct. Operation Specifications might say that an operator can fly single pilot (with an approved autopilot) rather than having to use 2 pilots for passenger carrying 135 charter. It is the FAA rules that require 2 pilots, not the ops specs.
 
Your friend can log anything he wants....he can log SIC hours in a Cessna, he can log how many cars he sees while flying SIC in the Cessna, but when it comes time to get his license, he can't use that time towards his license.

What he can use towards his license is the experience he gains while flying with you. Even though he can't use it to lower hour requirements for a license, he can use it to make his training easier (and as a result, cheaper). When it comes time to start training, he'll have an advantage over someone who has never seen or touched an airplane. One thing he'll have to remember, is that he's still a student. Even with 200 unlogged hours, he still has A LOT to learn, and he should go into training with an open mind......

edit: oh ya...even though he's not licensed, it doesn't mean he can't use the radios or fly. Just remember that YOU are the PIC and responsible for everything he does. Don't go outside of your comfort zone when you let him do things and if there's any question about it, make sure that he knows that you're going to take over complete control of the airplane...
 
:yeahthat:

The time is useless except for him learning how things work. He should really not log that time in his "official" logbook (if he is taking lessons or something) but maybe keep an extra one if he wants to know how many hours he has actually been flying in small aircraft.
 
SteveC said:
Sorry, but that isn't correct. Operation Specifications might say that an operator can fly single pilot (with an approved autopilot) rather than having to use 2 pilots for passenger carrying 135 charter. It is the FAA rules that require 2 pilots, not the ops specs.
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I'm very fuzzy on the details of how this works but our chief pilot does assign SICs to certain Baron runs in our company (135 cargo). After they have been assigned as an SIC they can legally log it as SIC time. It has been my understanding that the reason we can do this is that our ops specs has a provision for it, although I couldn't quote it for you. If I wasn't studying for a checkride I'd try to get some more details for you.

btw, with our company the SICs are payed for the time they are sitting in the right seat of the Baron...

Just because it's legal time doesn't mean it's valuable time though. I figured that time would probably be worthless to any company I try to apply to so I put it in a separate logbook and am not counting it towards my total time for the purposes of resumes and applications in the future should I choose to look for another job.
 
launchpad said:
Your friend can log anything he wants....he can log SIC hours in a Cessna, he can log how many cars he sees while flying SIC in the Cessna, but when it comes time to get his license, he can't use that time towards his license.

What he can use towards his license is the experience he gains while flying with you. Even though he can't use it to lower hour requirements for a license, he can use it to make his training easier (and as a result, cheaper). When it comes time to start training, he'll have an advantage over someone who has never seen or touched an airplane. One thing he'll have to remember, is that he's still a student. Even with 200 unlogged hours, he still has A LOT to learn, and he should go into training with an open mind......

edit: oh ya...even though he's not licensed, it doesn't mean he can't use the radios or fly. Just remember that YOU are the PIC and responsible for everything he does. Don't go outside of your comfort zone when you let him do things and if there's any question about it, make sure that he knows that you're going to take over complete control of the airplane...
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Thanks...

You know, I think I know so much, and everyday I learn more. I tell myself once in a while 'damn emir, you really didn't know crap back then did you?' lol
 
dpilot83 said:
I'm very fuzzy on the details of how this works but our chief pilot does assign SICs to certain Baron runs in our company (135 cargo). After they have been assigned as an SIC they can legally log it as SIC time. It has been my understanding that the reason we can do this is that our ops specs has a provision for it, although I couldn't quote it for you. If I wasn't studying for a checkride I'd try to get some more details for you.

btw, with our company the SICs are payed for the time they are sitting in the right seat of the Baron...
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That is exactly my understanding of it as well. It's a grey area but one alot of these outfits like keylime exploit. The opspecs are approved by FAA and if the opspecs require 2 pilots for whatever reason, insurance etc, then the SIC can log it.

Having said that following a search I still cant locate anything in black and white to prove the point. But if you look around there are literally bundles of placing offering SIC time (unfortunately).

Now the question of whether that time has any value at all is another discussion.
 
dpilot83 said:
I'm very fuzzy on the details of how this works but our chief pilot does assign SICs to certain Baron runs in our company (135 cargo). After they have been assigned as an SIC they can legally log it as SIC time. It has been my understanding that the reason we can do this is that our ops specs has a provision for it, although I couldn't quote it for you. If I wasn't studying for a checkride I'd try to get some more details for you.
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aussieflyer said:
That is exactly my understanding of it as well. It's a grey area but one alot of these outfits like keylime exploit. The opspecs are approved by FAA and if the opspecs require 2 pilots for whatever reason, insurance etc, then the SIC can log it.
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I suppose you guys could be right on that. My experience in 135 flying was (almost always) with people in the back, not boxes, and so the rules are a little different. With people, you are required to have 2 pilots for IFR flights, and the Ops Specs can allow you to operate with only 1, thus my post above. I always assumed the same logic was used for freight, but the more I think about it that doesn't necessarily make sense since many freight haulers run single pilot without A/P's...

It's already been a good day. I (maybe) learned something new.

:)
 
montanapilot said:
:yeahthat:


i'd like to see someone try explain how it isn't PIC.
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I don't have a problem with the poster logging PIC, but I'd like so see someone explain how a non-pilot under the hood may log PIC (that is countable for FAA purposes and not just as a memento equivalent to logging time in a 767 while sitting in seat 23B).

Paraphrasing 61.51(e), the hooded pilot in the usual safety pilot situation logs PIC as the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft the pilot is rated for.
 
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