Logging time in a PC-12

Thanks everyone for the input.

My buddy doesn't have a current CFI but does have his ATP and obviously his ha endorsement. On this first flight, couldn't I get the ha endorsement from him? I should add that this will not be the only flight I do in the PC-12. I have the opportunity to fly with him as often as I'd like (and when the situation allows), so this will not be a one-time deal. I hope to fly as much as humanly possible.

From a few of the posts, I am getting the idea that some of you think this is a bad idea. Am I NOT supposed to log this time (once the hp is attained) even though the regs say I am required to do so (to show currency and time towards the ATP)?

Thanks again.
 
timeoff said:
I will be flying with a buddy of mine in a Pilatus next week. It is a 135 operation but I will be flying a 3 hour empty repo leg. I have 260tt, my hp and complex endorsements and zero time in a PC-12. How should I, as an aspiring corp pilot, log this time knowing I will be flying this plane more in the future?

ps This could quite possibly lead to a job with them doing some sightseeing stuff (<25nm) and some VFR 135 stuff when I hit 500tt.

Thanks in advance.
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Regardless of what the regs may allow, you should not log it. Neither you nor your buddy owns that airplane. You are also neither an authorized crewmember, nor a paying passenger, which means you are probably not covered by the carrier's insurance. If something were to happen during the flight, even if you were not at the controls, there could be big problems.

Pilot-in-Command is more than just a column in a log book. Their are both privileges as well as responsibilities that go along with it. And if you unable or unwilling to to assume those responsibilities, then you do not deserve the privileges.

If you have permission to ride along, then by all means go for it and enjoy the ride.
 
Timeoff - My advice to you is to go along for the experience but forget about logging it. I sat right seat in a KA200 for nearly 25 hours and I didnt log a tenth of it, but I got to go into the flight levels for the first time, go to Canada, fly to some busy busy airports, see terrible weather, etc etc... I valued the time spent in the cockpit as getting my feet wet in the real world IFR system. 25 hours of KA200 time would not have helped me any more in getting my current job, as a few hours of pilatus time wont help you in getting a job elsewhere. I would just look at it as an opportunity to learn a few things from the captain, ask as many questions as you can and get as much from the flight as possible. It will help your confidence later on.
 
timeoff said:
My buddy doesn't have a current CFI but does have his ATP and obviously his ha endorsement. On this first flight, couldn't I get the ha endorsement from him?

From a few of the posts, I am getting the idea that some of you think this is a bad idea. Am I NOT supposed to log this time (once the hp is attained) even though the regs say I am required to do so (to show currency and time towards the ATP)?

Thanks again.
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No CFI means no endorsement, period.

You aren't required to log it at all unless you need it for a rating, which you don't.
 
CFIse said:
I cannot give you a reference that specifically states that a flight that does not contain revenue passengers or cargo is a Part 91 flight. All I can do is refer you to Part 119 and Part 135 where the requirements for operating under Part 135 are spelled out. If you have revenue passengers or cargo you must operate under Part 135 - absent either of those conditions you default to operating under Part 91. That's he way the FAA regulations work.

Now - you need to find me a reference that says a flight that does not have revenue passenger and cargo aboard must be operated under Part 135 (don't look to long, you won't find one).
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Uh, so what if it's a 121 flight that no one bought tickets on? Is it Part 91 then b/c there are no pax? I'm betting it's still 121.

Folks, I know jack about 135 regs, but I'm guessing guys like jtrain and ESF that deal with them DAILY know what they're talking about.....
 
I'm not sure what you're talking about, Steve, all I know how to do is punch through a level 5 thunderstorm at Vne with no radar or ice protection in the middle of a blizzard while half asleep in a plane with a busted wing spar and the left engine MELed. If I flew for Mesa, I'd know EVERYTHING!

(Did I cover it all?)
 
I'm not sure what you're talking about, Steve, all I know how to do is punch through a level 5 thunderstorm at Vne with no radar or ice protection in the middle of a blizzard while half asleep in a plane with a busted wing spar and the left engine MELed. If I flew for Mesa, I'd know EVERYTHING!
(Did I cover it all?)
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You forgot the part where you are steering with your knees with your seat reclined, all while laughing like a crazy lunatic Muuahahaha!!
 
jtrain609 said:
Stick with 121 regs bro, you don't have a clue in this arena.

If you're all on demand, which almost EVERY freight company is (even if they have "scheduled" runs), and your customer requests that you go to X airport empty to pick up their cargo, you're still acting on their behalf. They're paying you to operate that flight empty, and because you are engaged in common carriage you are hence operating as a 135 flight, no matter what's in the back.
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Really - I can't emphasis enough how you have no idea how the Part 135 regulations are applied and the rules as they relate to common carriage.
 
kellwolf said:
Uh, so what if it's a 121 flight that no one bought tickets on? Is it Part 91 then b/c there are no pax? I'm betting it's still 121.
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Well you'd be so wrong I can't even believe it. Are you telling me that at your airline they didn't tell you (and I'm sure it's in your GOM) that ferry flights are Part 91.

Find the section in Part 121 that allows a ferry flight with an item that requires a ferry permit - there isn't one - ferry permits are a Part 91 entity. Can't move the plane to a maintenance base? Guess again.
 
jtrain609 said:
True, but the ATP could give instruction to him even if it doesn't include an endorsement eh?
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I'm kind of getting out of this thread this it's clear that you and your friends here don't have any idea - but as a parting shot, review the portion of the regulations that allows ATPs to give instruction - having an ATP does not suddenly bless you with the powers of a CFI.
 
You can log whatever you want, log it as time even when your friend is flying, log all the time you sit at the airports watching airplanes, log the time you spend on JetCareers, it's all aviation related and you're learning something.

Your logbook is yours, log what you like how you like, here's the catch, don't count it as total time or PIC time for any job or FAA forms. If you go into a job and tell them you have 3 hours in a PC12 they will start asking you questions about the PC12, then you'll look like a fool when you don't have a clue about the systems.

When I'm doing a reposition flight or a ferry flight I treat it as a part 103 flight - anything goes.
 
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