MDPilot
Well-Known Member
AF UPT is one year long, the 10 year committment starts upon graduation, making a total of 11 years. I can't speak for the Navy.
2004 v. 2006 for pilots
- Thread starter meritflyer
- Start date
AF UPT is one year long, the 10 year committment starts upon graduation, making a total of 11 years. I can't speak for the Navy.
GrantHubbell
New Member
Chris you are absolutly right that salaries are not going up, but down since 2004. Keep in mind pilot salaries are down up to 48% in some airlines. That means, compared to "average" Americans, pilots salaries are still down up to 42%. I am not trying to start a war with you Chris, but to simply prove that pilots are getting the shortest end of the stick.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
So the average American is a fast food shift manager? Wow, you must feel so good about your self that you are just that much better than the average american.
I didn't say that, did I?
But to point to what an average american makes, and then say one should just be happy that they make more, is absurd when you don't give consideration for what they do, or the skills they possess.
What is your deal? What do you do for a living?
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Enough money to own a Lamborghini and not even sweat it.
BTW any one know any pilots that own one? Im determined to get one somehow in this lifetime!
Why? Couldn't you do more with $200-350k. It's not like a Lambo is an everyday car. You could take some lessons from B767Driver!
amorris311
Well-Known Member
his point was to have enough money that you dont have to worry about money on a month to month basis. he does not have to deny himself anything that he wants. there are people out there that call that happiness. that is a comfortable feeling to have but as you said b767driver has it right. keep your expenses low and it shouldnt be a problem.
I've never really thought of what my definition of "rich" is. I guess it would be an amount of money that allows you to comfortably afford the things you want. For some that could mean $millions, and for others, much, much less.
I think what one person considers a "good" salary, vs. what someone else considers a "good" salary, is going to differ. It truly is subjective. I think that is why arguments about pilot pay vary so much, from those who think pilots are overpaid, to those who just think they make better than the average, and should just be happy, to those who believe they are underpaid, etc.
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
The reason I ask is becuase, like you mentioned, $100K to person A may be a fortune. $100K to person B may be quarterly earnings.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
One could make a point that due to higher earnings, he is able to keep his expenses low. I'm not saying this is the case, but personally if I was making $100k-$150k some of the first things I would do with the extra income is pay off the mortgage, car, and save up enough to give a passive income to cover my limited expenses after that. Someone at lower income brackets wouldn't be able to pay off all that debt that quickly.
Personally, for me, "rich" is having enough passive income that covers all of my needs (shelter, food, etc.). With that covered, you have no fears of a job loss.
$1,000,000 @ 5% ROI = $50,000/yr. Most money market accounts these days are ~5%. With no mortgage, car payments, etc. you could live pretty much indefinately on that.
Champcar
Well-Known Member
Yes you did. I stated facts on the average American hourly earnings vs pilot earnings. You said I was comparing Pilots to a fast food assistant manager.
I just asked why the bitching? Still making some damn good money there.
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
As a note of personal finance, why would you tie up cash in houses and cars?
This is a major concept for most - put a massive down payment on your house and buy your cars out right.
Not me. I make more money by being able to invest that money in stocks and real estate rather than letting it sit in a depreciating asset such as a car.
On homes? Make sure you've picked a great home as an investment, not just a place to live for appreciation planning. Keep the cash you've made and make it work for you rather than letting it stick in investments that may or may not produce a profit and invest them properly.
Beg to differ.
Two medicals a year, recurrent training, being away from home for holidays, birthdays, parties, weddings, funerals (hopefully not my own), the basic risk of flying, coupled with the requisite experience it takes to go from zero-to-hero of a 777, the money isn't "all that" by far.
Now if I was cleaning houses for a living, yes, that would be "a damn good living".
But I'm flying a multi-million dollar aircraft at .78 up to 8 hours a day, 150 pax and 5 crew at a time through all sorts of weather while the guy who sells washing machines in 3C thinks I'm just up front mashing the "Lanna" button.
Not to preach, but I humbly remember arguing with one of my roommates in the parking lot at Riddle about how "Holy crap, those Eastern captains are getting paid $100K/year and they want to strike? Hell, my dad only made $40k! That's a lot of freaking money!"
That was 1989 I think.
I'm not trying to be preachy, but I was where you are today with respect to what's considered proper compensation. I'm just trying to save you some time and potential embarassment from one of your cohorts saying, "weren't you the guy who 20 years ago said..."
Sadly, the mechanism is in place where $100G's for an airline job might REALLY look unbelievably fantastic in the next few years.
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
Champ, I think the real point here is that being a pilot of an airliner is no "ordinary" job. With high risk jobs, there should be a high return. I cant really speak on behalf of the "establised" pilots out there but I think that you and others may be singing a different tune if your live had been established financially with a family and financial responsibilities then had to decrease it by 40-50%. As Amber said, people lost their homes and their financial well being over a very short period of time.
Garbagemen by some standards make "damn good money".
Its all a matter of perspective of what is "damn good money". For my financialy situation, second year FO at DAL pay would be a huge pay cut.
Again, all just a matter of perspective.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
You are looking at the situation strictly from a number point of view and not a situational point of view. Its ok, I used to think like you. Its because you haven't entered the field yet. Now think this way, you are in the middle of your airline career, living comfortably at 180k a year. 9-11 and high gas prices cause the airlines to cut your pay to 100k, an 80k pay cut. Now I know that if you were used to making 180k a year and getting a pay raise every year that you would be very pissed to lose 80k. Add executive bonus news and that should spike your blood pressure. 100k is a lot of money? Yes! But it is not a lot when you have the capability and right to earn 180k+
What the other pilots are trying to say are while you look at the current salaries and just from the number you think wow, thats alot of money, we think, hey we deserve more! Why settle for 100k when you can get 200k+? You can be happy with 70k a year, but I certainly want more(trying to get the lambo lol). The public needs pilots, if we all worked together we can make whatever type of salary we want to, up to a certain extent of course. Hope this helps.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
Yeah thats true, I'll probably rent one or get a timeshare. Oh you asked why, I always wanted to pull up to valet parking at the club in front of the long lines in one lol.
Flysher
Well-Known Member
Why the bitching? Because these guys took HUGE paycuts thats why!! You make it seem as if there is nothing wrong with an entire professional group being treated this way.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
You think I got my degree, spent thousands of dollars on flight training and have worked jobs that pay $10,000 a year so that I could get a well paying job in a few years to be average?
You've got another thing coming, son.
You've got another thing coming, son.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
#1 Because you can't live in a bank account. You can live in a paid for home.
#2 Purchasing a car outright (I'm on my third, used, but paid with cash) allows me to reduce my insurance by not requiring comp and collision to around 50% of what I would pay with full coverage. Also, in the event of a job loss, that car is yours. Keep in mind I didn't say to buy a new car. What's the ROI on say a $10,000 car? Average would be around $700-$1500/yr probably. Then subtract the interest you're paying on the car loan, or worse lease and the extra insurance coverage needed. I don't think it saves you all that much money.
#3 I would like the peace of mind of not having to owe anyone anything.
#4 Homes aren't an investment until you go to sell them. It's an unrealized gain.
Your way will produce more income, which comes with more risk. Nothing wrong with it. But I wouldn't make fun of people for wanting to do it another way. Both will get you to where you want to go.
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
I can conceptualize with all of your valid points. My "system" is definately more risky but it takes risk to make money, IMO.
desertdog71
Girthy Member
I give myself a healthy increase in pay every year by not paying the MAN his interest.
Borrower is slave to the lender. Remember that, it is the most true statement I know. Add up all your interest payments every year. It will make you sick, the ones you make on Cars and Credit Card are the best ones since we all know THOSE will not be appreciating anytime soon.
Borrower is slave to the lender. Remember that, it is the most true statement I know. Add up all your interest payments every year. It will make you sick, the ones you make on Cars and Credit Card are the best ones since we all know THOSE will not be appreciating anytime soon.
seagull
Well-Known Member
Enough money to own a Lamborghini and not even sweat it.
BTW any one know any pilots that own one? Im determined to get one somehow in this lifetime!
Yes, I know of at least one of our capt's that has one.