2004 v. 2006 for pilots

B767Driver said:
My 2004 W2 shows I earned $148K. My 2006 W2 will show $92K. That's about a 62% paycut. It didn't ruin my life because my annual expenses are $32K.

Spending less than you earn has always worked real well for me and I highly recommend it.
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Just going off the source listed.
 
DE727UPS said:
Oh Lordy. So Champcar thinks 35K a year is better than average and we should quit complaining. I have to assume he'll be happy never making more than that in today's dollars when he gets on at a major in 15 years.

I'm kinda wondering why this race to the bottom didn't start sooner...
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Wow, you pulled that one out of thin air, good for you. My numbers showed 59K a year before per diem, that a hell lot better than the average of 29K or so a year.
 
B767Driver said:
My 2004 W2 shows I earned $148K. My 2006 W2 will show $92K. That's about a 62% paycut. It didn't ruin my life because my annual expenses are $32K.

Spending less than you earn has always worked real well for me and I highly recommend it.
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Actually that's a 38% paycut....I'm surprised nobody caught it before I did.
 
Champcar said:
Wow, you pulled that one out of thin air, good for you. My numbers showed 59K a year before per diem, that a hell lot better than the average of 29K or so a year.
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I personally like how you are comparing a legacy FO to a McDonald's assistant manager.

The sad thing is the pilots that are now making $60k dropped tens of thousands on flight training or gave away 12 years of their life to the military. They also worked at jobs paying half of what your average american makes for several years (if they are lucky) to make it to the majors.

The McDonald's assistant manager applied after graduating highschool (or getting the GED), probably doesn't even own a car, and lives in an apartment down by the river.
 
The old ghosts of Stalinist collectivism are cheerfully watching this one! :)
 
wheelsup said:
..............or gave away 12 years of their life to the military.
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It would only be a 10 year commitment right now for pilots, but I would not categorize it as "giving away" time. Personally, if I could have been a military pilot, I would gladly have done so and given them every year they would allow. I would not even have wanted to be a fighter guy; cargo would have been great. The flying is good, but the fun part is how much of the world you get to see.

Interesting stuff in this topic aside from that. I gotta wonder if the supply of eager young pilots is going to dwindle in coming years. Alot of folks here, "in the know", have said it would not, but I just can't see a young guy really wanting to work for SO much less money than previous generations of pilots. It has always been the glamour AND money that seems to attract such a plentiful supply of hopeful pilots. The money is going away, and I think much of the glamour is as well as flying becomes the norm moreso every generation.
 
LoadMasterC141 said:
It would only be a 10 year commitment right now for pilots, but I would not categorize it as "giving away" time.
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From my understanding it's a 2 year training period + 10 year commitment = 12 years. Is this incorrect? That's what the Navy guy that lives next to me told me. And that's after the 4-year college, so it's really like a 14-16 year period after highschool.

Anyway, it's a sacrifice. You are signing over your life for 10-12 years. They tell you where you go; they tell you how you like it, etc. It may not be the same as "wasting" your life away, but you are giving it to the government, (for the benefit of others) IMO.
 
*IF* you get a slot and *IF* you survive a 40-60% washout rate! :)
 
The percentages of pay cuts (from 04 to 06) are good but the pay cuts get even worse when inflation is factored into them. `If inflation grows at, say 2-4% a year, then add another 4-8% decrease in the paycuts. That means the delta guys are looking at a 52-56% pay cut over two years.
 
Hmm. I guess I am wrong then. Was always told it was a 10 yr commitment from start of UPT.

And yeah Doug...You are right on all the IFs.
 
I wonder why Riddle/UND/ATP/RAA/Etc. dont ever enlighten incoming students to these numbers. Cost of living is going way up and salaries are going WAY down. This career is just brutally sad.
 
wheelsup said:
I personally like how you are comparing a legacy FO to a McDonald's assistant manager.

The sad thing is the pilots that are now making $60k dropped tens of thousands on flight training or gave away 12 years of their life to the military. They also worked at jobs paying half of what your average american makes for several years (if they are lucky) to make it to the majors.

The McDonald's assistant manager applied after graduating highschool (or getting the GED), probably doesn't even own a car, and lives in an apartment down by the river.
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So the average American is a fast food shift manager? Wow, you must feel so good about your self that you are just that much better than the average american.:confused:
 
Champcar said:
Thats the average for all jobs, including factory work, medical, buisness...and flipping burgers, everything is covered. Pilots are on the upper end, period.
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You are absolutely correct, but understand that pilots spend a lot more time on duty than 160 hours per month, and do not get paid for it. Pilots do make good salaries, but not what is deserving for the responsibility, and duty times. A pilot may make more than the average american, but they also work a lot more. It is misleading to focus on just the guarantee, and assume a Delta pilot works just 80 hours per month.
 
GrantHubbell said:
The percentages of pay cuts (from 04 to 06) are good but the pay cuts get even worse when inflation is factored into them. `If inflation grows at, say 2-4% a year, then add another 4-8% decrease in the paycuts. That means the delta guys are looking at a 52-56% pay cut over two years.
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You make a valid point, and in other sectors, salaries are not increasing either. In fact, I saw a statistic that average salaries among Americans are down, across all sectors, 4%, since 2004. No matter where you look, people are being sc3wed by management.
 
Champcar - Yea the average salary might still be more than alot jobs out there, but the fact still stands that these guys are taking HUGE paycuts for a job that simply deserves more.

Simply accepting it and saying "well we still make more" makes it seem ok and gives them more leverage in driving it down further.
 
ChrisH said:
You are absolutely correct, but understand that pilots spend a lot more time on duty than 160 hours per month, and do not get paid for it. Pilots do make good salaries, but not what is deserving for the responsibility, and duty times. A pilot may make more than the average american, but they also work a lot more. It is misleading to focus on just the guarantee, and assume a Delta pilot works just 80 hours per month.
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I wouldn't say they work a lot more, but they do have a specialized skill that should be compensated for.
 
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