2004 v. 2006 for pilots

M

meritflyer

Well-Known Member
I took this from another thread to expand on it from a numerical standpoint.

Delta
In 2004 a second year FO on the 757/767 made $131/hr
In 2006 a second year FO on the 757/767 made $76/hr
A 48% pay cut.

American
In 2004 a second year FO on the 757/767 made $95/hr
In 2006 a second year FO on the 757/767 made $78/hr
An 18% pay cut.

Alaska
In 2004 a second year FO on the MD80/737 made $91/hr
In 2006 a second year FO on the MD80/737 made $62/hr
A 32% pay cut.

US Airways
In 2004 a second year FO on the 737 made $75/hr
In 2006 a second year FO on the 737 made $57/hr
A 24% pay cut.

Northwest
In 2004 a second year FO on the A320 made $98/hr
In 2006 a second year FO on the A320 made $63/hr
A 35% pay cut.


How did this happen? This would've (did) ruined lives.

This happened so dang quick as well. All over 24 months.

Will the airlines ever pay their pilots their worth ever again?

Pretty sad if you ask me.

Source: Airline Pilot Central
All numbers were based on a 24 month period (May 2004-May 2006)
 
that is brutal! i have a friend here at school whose father flies for delta as a 757 ca and she has told me that they have had to move because of it and her mom has to pick up a second job. that is rough and i feel so bad for her. like a carpet being pulled out from underneath you.
 
Interesting! However without starting a riot I would also say that one if not more of those airlines would not be here if they did not make cuts. My .02 cents would state that I rather take a "temporary" pay cut in order to have a job 2 years later. Anyways putting these numbers up you should also state the finiancial stability of the airlines also. However I know you were going for the "aww" response and therefore by putting numbers only it is only portrayed one way.

Disclaimer: I am not saying paycuts are right or they pay enough, just stating if you post these numbers you need more information too!
 
meritflyer said:
I took this from another thread to expand on it from a numerical standpoint.
.....
#1 How did this happen? #2 This would've (did) ruined lives.

........
Source: Airline Pilot Central
All numbers were based on a 24 month period (May 2004-May 2006)
Click to expand...


#1 Bankruptcy might have something to do with it.

#2 Was it bad? Yes. Did it ruin lives? Quite possibly, yes! Doesn't mean it has to. Yes paycuts suck, but I know a few people working at majors and it has not 'ruined' their lives. Yes, it is a cliche, but its not what you make, but more of what you keep.

If you are making 'x' and spending 'x' then you are going to have problems if a paycut comes along.

On a side note, with the airlines mentioned, excluding Alaska, did any of them have any 2nd yr FO's. :confused:
 
JEP said:
#1 Bankruptcy might have soemthign to do with it.

#2 Was it bad? Yes. Did it ruin lives? Quite possibly, yes! Doesn't mean it has to. Yes paycuts suck, but I know a few people working at majors and it has not 'ruined' their lives. Yes, it is a cliche, but its not what you make, but more of what you keep.
QUOTE]


DING DING DING!

I dont mean to seem pestimistic however we cant just look at numbers. There's more to those then numerals. There's a reason behind it and I believe we all know what that is. As stated the largest one being Bankruptcy. With that if you do not realize that assest+liabilities=Owners Equity perhaps an accounting class would be good. Cant make ends meet, something had to happen or else they go BYE BYE.
Click to expand...
 
I would like to see the wonderful executive pay scales for the same period. I would also like to see all scales compared to 10 and 20 years prior. Show the profit/loss for said time frames and airlines too. Now that would get some "awe" comments I'm sure.
 
PGT said:
those are just paycuts, what about benefits and retirement?
Click to expand...

Again, yes cuts due to if they did not bankruptcy would occur! And I would agree with the fact that CEO's, etc did not take nearly as much of a cut. However not many business or organiztions do they take their cuts first. Bottom up and it will be that way for a while.

Yes cuts happen and it stinks. Yes CEO's VPs etc. did not take as much of a cut. And even more so it'd be very interesting to see what their pay is like. I do believe that is/has to be published in their finainical reports (i could be wrong). Anyone know this kind of information?
 
JEP said:
10 years in the airline biz is a couple of lifetimes......:insane:
Click to expand...

DING DING DING, another winner! There's no way to say what will happen in 2 years let alone 10 years. Who would have guessed that SWA would being paying what they pay currently? It would be like me saying that AirTran will pay as much if not more then SWA in 5-10 years........ There's no validity in that statement
 
meyers9163 said:
Yes cuts happen and it stinks. Yes CEO's VPs etc. did not take as much of a cut. And even more so it'd be very interesting to see what their pay is like. I do believe that is/has to be published in their finainical reports (i could be wrong). Anyone know this kind of information?
Click to expand...

You're correct that pay and compensation must be disclosed by any public company. Keep in mind that what their "salary" is vs. what their total compensation totals are kept somewhat seperate.

Take the Ford Motor Co. for example. Bill Ford, who is the chairman (just stepped down as the CEO), claims a "zero salary" but exercised $2.11M in stock options in 2005.

This is all public record.

Gerald Arpey of AMR (American Airlines / Eagle), has an annual salary of $526K. His compensation will be much higher though. His exercised stock options amounted to $328K. More recently, he and other top executives just awarded themselves with a very notable raise.

American Airlines VP, Daniel Garton, was paid $479,000 salary, $225,000 in restricted stock options, and $1.9M in long term stock incentives.

American Airliens general counsel, Gary Kennedy, and VP Robert Reding, were awarded mirror compensation packages which included a $430,000 salary, $136,000 in restricted stock options, and $1.55M in long term bonus incentives.

All of these "incentives" paid while the company lost nearly $1 billion dollars.

Does that sound right to you?
 
meritflyer said:
Take the Ford Motor Co. for example. Bill Ford, who is the chairman (just stepped down as the CEO), claims a "zero salary" but exercised $2.11M in stock options in 2005.



This is all public record.
Click to expand...


Great and valid point! Not able to argue that at all.... Absolutely correct!
 
JEP said:
Quite possibly, yes! Doesn't mean it has to. Yes paycuts suck, but I know a few people working at majors and it has not 'ruined' their lives. Yes, it is a cliche, but its not what you make, but more of what you keep.

If you are making 'x' and spending 'x' then you are going to have problems if a paycut comes along.
Click to expand...

That's a bit insensitive, isn't it? Look at those numbers, everyone except Delta is actually second round cuts if I remember correctly - IOW there were actually larger cuts taken.

Of course it's not what you make, it's what you keep - but when you go from making $250,000+/yr to making $70,000 - 150,000 you're gonna feel a pinch, unless you are a miser and live under a rock and stockpile your money. Are you seriously suggesting it is these folks' fault for being financially irresponsible for losing their homes after taking a $50,000 - $170,000/yr pay cut (after taking pay cuts and getting knocked back to the right seat)?
 
The paycuts are far from temporary. We won't see anything resembling those old rates for many, many years.

As for the pay rates 'ruining' lives, it only really ruins a life if you let it. The past years have been very, very hard on us. We lost the house my husband grew up in, we had to make great changes in our lifestyle, it has been hard. But, we've adapted, and haven't allowed DL to ruin our life together. I will not give Leo and GerGer that satisfaction. They don't care one iota about me or my family, and I'm not going to let them ruin my life.
 
Was there a link for any website that shows the finiancial records? Just wondering about this. I really would be interested in the actual financial aspects to all of this.
 
So long as some are making excuses and stating such cuts are okay we will never climb out of it . . . especially coming from those within the careerfield. A disgrace :(

Meritflyer, I saw your original intent in this thread. Good looking out.
 
surreal1221 said:
So long as some are making excuses and stating such cuts are okay we will never climb out of it . . . especially coming from those within the careerfield. A disgrace :(
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I dont think anyone was making an excuse. Just saying that due to the economy and what occured in order for these companies to stay afloat things did have to happen. It was not meant to offend anyone or make an excuse. Rather stating that in order for them to be here today things had to happen and unfortunately it was cuts in many aspects that affect many of our fellow JCers!
 
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