Flying Schools

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Gabito

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I am planning to study aviation, and I am considering the following academies : Pan Am, Regional Airlines and FlightSafety. I will appreciate if somebody who has passed through this experience can give me an opinion about these academies.

Thank you
 
They are all overpriced routes into the piloting profession. They work for some people, especially for those whom money is no object or those who have VA benies to spend. Just don't buy off on the marketing hype you'll see at the schools websites. Be sure to visit each school personally and talk to students on the side, not part of the official tour.

I think the best route into the profession is to train at a quality smaller school, get your CFI, and work your way up.

Be especially wary of schools that promise you a job or an interview.
 
Gabito. See my profile at the perspectives section of the home page. I'm a 757/767 Capt at UPS. I trained at both ERAU and small flight schools. Hopefully, someone from FSA with something useful to say will speak up.
 
Always a glamorous introduction, thank you Don :)

I currently attend FSA in Vero, and can offer you a little insight on the program, yet as Don said, visiting the school is the best idea.

We have a very structured course here, and they have a syllabus they follow religiously. The professional pilot course they sell you as a zero time pilot is the CIME (commercial/instrument - multi-engine). They say you can do this course in 53 weeks, but that's with 5 events per week(an event is a flight, class, simulator lesson, etc). There aren't very many people that can manage to get 5 events. Weather, scheduling, work, all affect how you get scheduled. I'm currently about a year and 2 months into it here, and I'm just about to finish CIME.

The planes are well maintained, as ancient as they are. The facilities here for the most part are well maintained.

I have enjoyed most of my stay here, and am satisfied with the training. It is expensive, but in my mind, well spent. You can spend a lot less money, and get the same training, but you can't get some of the benefits of training here. They have a great corporate business jet internship program, and of course the opportunity to instruct here.

If you have any other questions, I'm all ears.
 
This is something I typed several months ago in the forum about the various flight training options. Instead of repeating myself, I just cut 'n pasted:

Doug Taylor said:
This is my opinion. It's 'stream of consciousness' so I might ramble.

There are five distinct "training circles".

One training circle is the military. People that have the qualifications for the military and have a strong desire to serve their country generally take this route. Highly structured program, intense training, little opportunity for extra training and zero spoon feeding. Perform at 100% or become the "chief bottle washer" of your Air Force base. Taxpayer-financed training, but you repay that cost with a charge to defend the nation with your life.

Another training circle are the FBO/fixed base operators. Spread across the country at small, medium and large airports offering a variety of services. Some have stuctured programs, some don't. Costs are generally lower than other training circles, but you get the same FAA certificate than you get anywhere else. Mostly meant for people who want to train at their local airport at their own pace. Less structure and less overhead mean a lower cost.

Flight Academies are another circle. Some students perform best in a tightly structured (for the lack of a better term) quasi-military style program with performance goals, a tight syllabus and whatnot. Additional structure means a higher cost than a FBO/fixed base operator.

Another training circle are accelerated (training) programs. If you're a self-starter, learn fast on your own and generally (unlike me cuz I'm a little slow) have the ability to get concepts and manuevers down pat the first time, you can save time and sometimes money with a program like this. Costs vary depending on the company.

And the last circle is the Aviation University. A mix of Flight Academy added into a collegiate environment.

As a potential student, you've really got to look at yourself first and figure out how you learn and what you want to get out of training in order to decide which training circle you'd do best in. Some people need a red-hot fire poker in their rump during training and others want a 'peace train' approach. Comparing prices and programs across circles isn't a valid comparison unless you recognize what environment you feel you'll best succeed in.

Focus primarily on the training and the environment that best matches the way you realistically learn.
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Gabito said:
I am planning to study aviation, and I am considering the following academies : Pan Am, Regional Airlines and FlightSafety. I will appreciate if somebody who has passed through this experience can give me an opinion about these academies.

Thank you
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I, as well as most of my friends who went through FSA completed the CIME program in 7-9 months. If you want to fly 5 missions a week, it is very easy to do. We had 600 students there when I went through and my instructor always had 6 students. Getting scheduled is not a problem. Sometimes I would fly 2 missions a day.

FSA has one of the best programs out there. If you want to get hired by a regional fast you are going to need good multi engine time behind you. Make sure you look for a school that has a good multi program where you can build the ME time. At FSA you will do the last three steps of the program in the twin to include your instrument rating. As an instructor there you can expect to have approx 400 hours of multi by the time you hit 1100 total time. Most of the instructors when I was there were getting hired at 800TT/300ME.

I trained at Safety and two small FBO's. There isn't an FBO school out there that will give you the quality training or multi time that FSA will get you. Maybe another larger school like ATP, Embry Riddle or UND, but not a mom and pop FBO.....


Good luck,
PM me if you want and we'll chat...

DE, is that useful enough????

ILS
 
I went to FSA and I agree that its a great place to learn. The only downside was the cost. Very very expensive. If cost is not an issue, then go to FSA. Just keep in mind that there are many roads to take to get where you want, all of which produce successful pilots every year. Also like ILS said, you can get done pretty fast at FSA if you fly alot. Dont call them missions though if you go there, they might laugh at you :D :DJust kiddin ILS.
 
CLR4ILS said:
I trained at Safety and two small FBO's. There isn't an FBO school out there that will give you the quality training or multi time that FSA will get you. Maybe another larger school like ATP, Embry Riddle or UND, but not a mom and pop FBO.....
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That is your opinion. I disagree with it. Strongly.
 
Thank you for your comments. all the opinions have been very helpfull. I already visist FSA, Delta Conection and Regional Airline Academy...I think I am ready to take a decision. I know there are many ways to get the tickets, Flying is a passion and I am in it because I liked not for money. Every person has and opinion but if I stay in Puerto Rico Studying at the end it will take a lot of time and a lot of money and will not obtain the quality of tranning that I could get at an academy like FSA. If you analized the costs at the end its almost the same the diference is quality and well structure program.

I don't know if my opiniom is correct but according with my experience, that is my feeling.

Gabito
 
DE727UPS said:
"DE, is that useful enough????"

Much better, learning has taken place...
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Your kidding right? You have abused your moderating authority again by deleting my original post. You actually think I would ever take anything you say as "something to learn from"?


DE727UPS said:
I notice a major difference between Blizzue and ILS's experiences with FSA. Blizzue uses words like "I currently attend" and "I'm currently...". ILS uses words like "I trained at" and "We had...when I went through...".
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It makes no difference whether he and I attended at the same time or not. Myself and all of my friends finished the CIME program early and under budget. I think that given I finished the program in the top 5% out of 600 students gives me just a bit more clout than someone who is behind blaming it on WX etc.... I don't care for sniveling babies. Yes, the piper Warriors are early eighties. They are extremely well maintained on a 50 hour progressive MX program and serve their purpose for private and VFR commercial time building. The Seminoles are new fully equipped with HSI, RMI, and dual 430's which are used for the instrument multi training.

I would like to see Blizzue leave FSA after CIME and go to one of your great mom and pop FBO's for his CFI ratings. I gaurantee he would be crawling back for the excellent training and facilities (to include the aircraft) he left behind. I know, because I did my CFI elsewhere (because of wifes job offer) and immediatley ran back to FSA for the CFI through MEI....


DE727UPS said:
Of course, what it's like now is most important to a newbie asking questions like Gabito's and, like Blizzue said, a personal visit and dialouge with a current student (off the record) is a must. ]
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The school is still one of the best in the nation. It is still "NOW" providing excellent training with great customer service. Yes, when you tour you should talk with the students. FSA will tell you to during the tour. I know because I gave the tours when I worked and attended there.


DE727UPS said:
"
"There isn't an FBO school out there that will give you the quality training or multi time that FSA will get you"

I totally disagree. Here's a school that I'd use to challenge that statement. http://www.galvinflying.com/GalvinFlying.aspx/Pilot Training
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I have rented A/C at Galvin and flown out of Boeing Field many times. A friend of mine used to instruct there. He is also one of many friends who told me to go to FSA. If I remember correctly, he did not like the amount of "down" time there....

ILS
 
I have a friend at FSA right now working on his CFI. He likes the school and the quality of instruction. He did say that the instructors are swamped, and this is one thing leading to delays. Due to scheduling delays, he gets to fly 3 days a week instead of the 5 that he would rather have.
 
I think if anyone is looking for a "perfect" institution to train at, they need to look at themselves first to see what environment they'll best learn in.

I've said it a thousand times over the last decade of running the website and I'll say it again, it all depends on what you're looking for and what environment best matches your personality.

If I didn't think the FSA program that value or that 'the planes are old!' or whatever, I wouldn't run the risk of running their advertisements on Jetcareers.com

Ads don't produce much revenue at all so chances of me selling out for an advertiser are straight up ridiculous.

They've got a great program for people who best thrive in a highly structured environment.

But to answer the question (again), keep doing your research, ask lots of questions and do impromtu 'site visits' to places that you're interested in.
 
All of the non-sequitor/"my pee pee is bigger'n your pee pee" threads are in "The Lavatory".

I'm starting to feel like an air traffic controller where no one's paying attention to vectors...
 
I will just copy and paste my post from an earlier thread.

Overall, I was very impressed by the whole place, and have no complaints. I now wish I hadn't paid so much, but that was my call.


Pros:

Well set up program.

Good instructors.

Great CFI ground school

Spin training (loved that)

Great maintence.

Large fleet



Cons:

Rigid program

Bad instructors

Cost

"Extra Features" like spatial disorientation traing and CRM class which cost a lot, yet don't add much to your education.

Vero Beach in the winter.



I saw some great instructors at FSA and saw some terrible ones. My CFI for comercial/instrument/ME was terrific. The CFI I had for the instructor course was awful. The ground schools were good, and the CFI ground school was great. However, many common myths, and OWTs were repeated several times.

All the CFIs went through "standardization" class where they were taught to instruct students to a certian standard. This is a good idea, except that once a CFI learned something in "standz" it was not up for debate. I argued with my instructor several times about something I knew to be incorect. I have had to "unlearn" many things I learned there. To be fair most of these are common throughout the country and are not unique to FSA.

Like all of the big schools, you are never really PIC. All solo flights must be aproved by a CFI for Wx and flight planning. This does protect the few idiots out there, but it also dosen't allow the student to make go/nogo decisions by themselves.

The checklists and procedures are well thought out. OTOH they cause students to spend a lot of time head in the cockpit.

I am now teaching at a small school, and I think I give my student's as good a learning experiance as I recived at FSA albeit without a lot of the extra support.

In conclusion I loved my time at FSA, and think it's one of the best schools in the country. Yet it is not without it's faults, and is very expensive.
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Gabito said:
I am planning to study aviation, and I am considering the following academies : Pan Am, Regional Airlines and FlightSafety. I will appreciate if somebody who has passed through this experience can give me an opinion about these academies.

Thank you
Click to expand...

I attended FSA back in 2002, private to CFI took about 9 months. I was able to fly 5 times a week and I made the most of everyday I had down there. I enjoyed the training and "I" think it was worth the money.

The FBO vs. flight academy vs. a college type flight school (UND, DWC etc) has been debated very very much here. It is a personal decision, an education is what you make of it, it's more about how you learn and the effort you put into it rather than where you learn. I have friends who graduated from a respectable university with a bachelors degree and they're working at home depot. I have other friends who never went to college and have their own small businesses. Flight training much like life is what you make of it.

I will say this bigger and more expensive is not always better. For example, my Honda civic will out last and is more reliable than any Ferrari or Porsche.
 
BEWARE of FlightSafety: I was a student there and had a very difficult time getting my instrument rating there. The Seminole was just to fast for me to catch on to. I suggested doing my rating in one of their instrument rated single engines and they refused. The result was incompleted flights and review boards (actually taking my money), then one day I had a meeting w/Mr. Skovgard (the director) and he terminated my training. Thats right, after spending $80,000 I got kicked out of school. Its not that I was a slacker or anything, I really studied and tried hard. I NEVER missed a lesson or was unprepared for a flight. Its just that I didn't "fit" into the FS way of doing things and they told me to leave. Do I feel it was very unprofessional? Yes. Do I feel like FS did all they could have to help me, a struggling student? NO. Would I recommend FS to anyone? NO WAY. If you don't fit into their "cookie cutter" way of teaching, then you dont belong there. I wish I knew this $80,000 ago. I should have bought my own airplane and hired my own instructor instead of throwing it away at FS. Oh well such is life. If they dont want my money, someone else will...afterall I have enough of it!!!!
 
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