Here We Go Again - Look Out Phoenix

#1 the individuals should have known that given the current state of affairs in the U.S. You do not stand up in an airplane and start praying. They were concerned enough to alert the FBI to their meeting, they sure knew that standing up in an airplane would have caused unwanted attention.

#2 Happy to explain....Yea, O.k. you mean like the ease they left the plane with? O.K.

#3 Putting up a fight, yea that will solve everything.

#4 Drive by, Terrorost activity....Two different things...

#1 - I think this is probably stupidity on everyone's part. Should a Muslim be able to pray on an airplane? Yes. Is it their fault that most Americans are too stupid to realize that that's what Muslims do? No. Would it be smart to wait till their on the ground? Yes.

#2 - I doubt anyone actually asked them what they were doing. I imagine the plane simply landed and they were asked to leave. I'd be pissed off too.

#3 - They didn't fight, they simply refused to leave out of protest - as did Rosa Parks, MLK, Ghandi ... etc.

#4 - 1.ter‧ror‧ism [ter-uh-riz-uh
thinsp.png
m]:
the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.
 
#1 the individuals should have known that given the current state of affairs in the U.S. You do not stand up in an airplane and start praying. They were concerned enough to alert the FBI to their meeting, they sure knew that standing up in an airplane would have caused unwanted attention.

#2 Happy to explain....Yea, O.k. you mean like the ease they left the plane with? O.K.

#3 Putting up a fight, yea that will solve everything.

#4 Drive by, Terrorost activity....Two different things...


:yeahthat: - The unfortnuate reality is that these guys brougt this upon themselves by standing up and saying these prayers. In the current climate of the US (the world for that matter) and on an airplane??? Come on - if I was on that plane, you better believe I'd have been watching them very closely and would have been 'ready to roll'. Now, I'm sure this is gonna get some of you all upset and distressed - I can care less. I'm just saying what many of us are thinking. Is it unfortunate that it had to go down in this manner? Sure, but they could have used better judgement.

Common sense goes a long way - in my opinion they demonstrated very little.
 
:yeahthat: - The unfortnuate reality is that these guys brougt this upon themselves by standing up and saying these prayers. In the current climate of the US (the world for that matter) and on an airplane??? Come on - if I was on that plane, you better believe I'd have been watching them very closely and would have been 'ready to roll'. Now, I'm sure this is gonna get some of you all upset and distressed - I can care less. I'm just saying what many of us are thinking. Is it unfortunate that it had to go down in this manner? Sure, but they could have used better judgement.

Common sense goes a long way - in my opinion they demonstrated very little.

I'd be much more apt to be 'ready to roll' on the fat white b!$%# who starts yelling into her cell phone about how badly her recent colonoscopy went. But that's just me.
 
#1 - I think this is probably stupidity on everyone's part. Should a Muslim be able to pray on an airplane? Yes. Is it their fault that most Americans are too stupid to realize that that's what Muslims do? No. Would it be smart to wait till their on the ground? Yes.

#2 - I doubt anyone actually asked them what they were doing. I imagine the plane simply landed and they were asked to leave. I'd be pissed off too.

#3 - They didn't fight, they simply refused to leave out of protest - as did Rosa Parks, MLK, Ghandi ... etc.

#4 - 1.ter‧ror‧ism [ter-uh-riz-uh
thinsp.png
m]:
the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.

#1 Is it Americans fault that Muslims don't realize you do not stand up on a plane as it is preparing to depart and draw unwanted attention ? No.

#2 Uhhh....You might want to read the article. It happened as they were preparing to depart.
 
#1 - I think this is probably stupidity on everyone's part. Should a Muslim be able to pray on an airplane? Yes. Is it their fault that most Americans are too stupid to realize that that's what Muslims do? No. Would it be smart to wait till their on the ground? Yes.

Airlines are just not equipped for everybody to pray on the airplane, if they want to pray on the airplane, stay in your seat & keep it quiet. Going into the aisle with a prayer rug is an inconvenience to the rest of the passengers & could also be considered a safety issue

Using the word "Stupid" is quite rude. Ever Religion has some sort of prayer ritual, but, out of respect for others, they keep it to themselves.
 
#1 Is it Americans fault that Muslims don't realize you do not stand up on a plane as it is preparing to depart and draw unwanted attention ? No.

#2 Uhhh....You might want to read the article. It happened as they were preparing to depart.


If the plane was getting ready to depart, then they should have remained in their seat - that's fair enough. But there are no rules saying a person can't stand to pray during the flight, when the seat belt sign is off, and they're not blocking the aisle. I imagine even a muslim sitting in his or her seat praying would have envoked the same response.

I didn't read the article - it's very likely that they were in the wrong. But I wonder if anyone asked them what they were doing, instead of simply forcing them off of the aircraft.
 
Airlines are just not equipped for everybody to pray on the airplane, if they want to pray on the airplane, stay in your seat & keep it quiet. Going into the aisle with a prayer rug is an inconvenience to the rest of the passengers & could also be considered a safety issue

Using the word "Stupid" is quite rude. Ever Religion has some sort of prayer ritual, but, out of respect for others, they keep it to themselves.

I agree, if they were in the aisle, they should have been asked to return to their seats for the reasons you cited. But I get the impression they weren't asked, they were simply escorted off.

I don't think it was inapprorpiate to use the word stupid. The guys standing in the aisle and praying was stupid. Not wrong, just stupid. People reacting as if they were going to blow the plane apart was stupid simply because anyone with even minimal knowledge of the Muslim faith would recognize their prayers as normal.

What would have been wrong with the crew asking them to sit down? Had they refused, they should have been escorted off.
 
If the plane was getting ready to depart, then they should have remained in their seat - that's fair enough. #1 But there are no rules saying a person can't stand to pray during the flight, when the seat belt sign is off, and they're not blocking the aisle. #2 I imagine even a muslim sitting in his or her seat praying would have envoked the same response.

I didn't read the article - it's very likely that they were in the wrong. But I wonder if anyone asked them what they were doing, instead of simply forcing them off of the aircraft.

#1 Again, drawing unwanted attention. If you want to pray, go right ahead. But again, these were not stupid people. I cannot believe that they did not know it would draw the attention.

#2 Please, there were 140+ pax on the flight. How do you think they stood out? Sitting down or standing up? If they were sitting in their seats they would have been no different than the other 134 pax on the flight.
 
#1 Again, drawing unwanted attention. If you want to pray, go right ahead. But again, these were not stupid people. I cannot believe that they did not know it would draw the attention.

#2 Please, there were 140+ pax on the flight. How do you think they stood out? Sitting down or standing up? If they were sitting in their seats they would have been no different than the other 134 pax on the flight.

You're right, they shouldn't have stood to pray. Like I said, I just think that if it were anyone else, they would have been asked to sit down before being forced off the plane. I've yet to see anything that says that this was the case. That's my beef and that's why I think they had a reason to be mad. Should we turn the plane around and kick people off who use portable electronic devices during taxi? Wouldn't it be easier to ask them to turn it off first?
 
Here is the AP report on the story.

While I feel bad for the innocent Imams being stuck in Phoenix, I think that they should have been more sensitive to the environment they were in, being that planes were used by Islamic Jehadis to kill 3000 people.

6 imams removed from flight at Twin Cities airport, questioned
(c) 2006. The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.
By STEVE KARNOWSKI
11-21-2006 06:26 EST
MINNEAPOLIS (AP) - Six Muslim imams on Monday were removed from a US Airways flight at Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport and questioned by police for several hours before being released, a leader of the group said.
The six were among passengers who boarded Flight 300, bound for Phoenix, around 6:30 p.m., airport spokesman Pat Hogan said.
A passenger initially raised concerns about the group through a note passed to a flight attendant, according to Andrea Rader, a spokeswoman for US Airways. She said police were called after the captain and airport security workers asked the men to leave the plane and the men refused.
"They took us off the plane, humiliated us in a very disrespectful way," said Omar Shahin, of Phoenix.
The six Muslim scholars were returning from a conference in Minneapolis of the North American Imams Federation, said Shahin, president of the group. Five of them were from the Phoenix-Tempe area, while one was from Bakersfield, Calif., he said.
Three of them stood and said their normal evening prayers together on the plane, as 1.7 billion Muslims around the world do every day, Shahin said. He attributed any concerns by passengers or crew to ignorance about Islam.
"I never felt bad in my life like that," he said. "I never. Six imams. Six leaders in this country. Six scholars in handcuffs. It's terrible."
Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman for the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations, expressed anger at the detentions.
"CAIR will be filing a complaint with relevant authorities in the morning over the treatment of the imams to determine whether the incident was caused by anti-Muslim hysteria by the passengers and/or the airline crew," Hooper said. "Because, unfortunately, this is a growing problem of singling out Muslims or people perceived to be Muslims at airports, and it's one that we've been addressing for some time."
Hooper said the meeting drew about 150 imams from all over the country, and that those attending included U.S. Rep.-elect Keith Ellison, D-Minneapolis, who just became the first Muslim elected to Congress. Shahin said they went as far as notifying police and the FBI about their meeting in advance.
Shahin expressed frustration that -- despite extensive efforts by him and other Muslim leaders since even before the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks -- so many Americans know so little about Islam.
"If up to now they don't know about prayers, this is a real problem," he said.
Reached by cell phone just after his release, Shahin said he didn't know where they would spend the night or how they would try to get back to Phoenix on Tuesday. Hooper said US Airways refused to put the men on another flight.
Hogan said more information would likely be released Tuesday.
The other passengers on the flight, which was carrying 141 passengers and five crew members, were re-screened for boarding, Rader said. The plane took off about three hours after the men were removed from the flight.
------
AP reporter Gregg Aamot contributed to this story.
 
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me whether or not they were asked to sit down or confronted at all before they were asked to leave the aircraft. If not, this is completely discriminatory on behalf of U.S. Air and they can be expected to have their socks sued off of them.
 
From reading the AP report, it seems that they were immediately asked to leave and they refused, which is why they were arrested. I agree, they should have been asked to sit down and buckle up as other passengers were doing.
 
If the plane was getting ready to depart, then they should have remained in their seat - that's fair enough. But there are no rules saying a person can't stand to pray during the flight, when the seat belt sign is off, and they're not blocking the aisle. I imagine even a muslim sitting in his or her seat praying would have envoked the same response.

I didn't read the article - it's very likely that they were in the wrong. But I wonder if anyone asked them what they were doing, instead of simply forcing them off of the aircraft.

Sir

When they start praying, they lay down a prayer rug & get down on their hands & knees & start praying, so yes, while they are praying they are blocking the aisle....

So, the airline would have to make a special announcement for them to ensure the other 150 passengers know not to get out of their seats & the Flight Attendants could not start serving until the praying stopped.
 
Sir

When they start praying, they lay down a prayer rug & get down on their hands & knees & start praying, so yes, while they are praying they are blocking the aisle....

So, the airline would have to make a special announcement for them to ensure the other 150 passengers know not to get out of their seats & the Flight Attendants could not start serving until the praying stopped.

I'm not arguing that they should have been allowed to block the aisle.
 
This is from the StarTribune in Minneapolis - seems the incident didn't actually take place on the plane. Definitely some interesting things to think about in here. Reading this, I don't think it's quite as cut and dry as I once thought



Muslim scholar calls for airline boycott

Six imams were removed from a US Airways flight at Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport on Monday and questioned by police for several hours before being released, a leader of the group said.
Bob von Sternberg, Star Tribune Last update: November 21, 2006 – 12:14 PM

One of the Muslim scholars removed from a US Airways flight on Monday today called for imams around the country to boycott the airline after employees refused to sell him new tickets for his flight home.

On Monday, Omar Shahin and five other imams had gone to Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport to fly home to Phoenix after attending a conference in Minneapolis of the North American Imams Federation. Shahin is president of the group.
But after passengers raised concerns about the imams — three of whom said their normal evening prayers in the airport terminal before boarding the Phoenix-bound plane — the imams were removed from the flight and questioned by authorities.
This morning Shahin returned to the Twin Cities International Airport to buy six more tickets for the flight to Phoenix, but a US Airways ticket agent and supervisor refused to sell him the tickets.
In an exchange witnessed by a Star Tribune reporter, the unnamed supervisor said Shahin's tickets had been refunded and that he needed to get tickets on another airline.
The supervisor then offered Shahin a customer service phone number.
"I want to go home. I don't want phone numbers," Shahin said. "I want to buy six tickets."
"They have no reason to refuse service to us just because of the way we look," he said "It's terrible. We want America to stay the way it is because we love this country."
The supervisor asked Shahin to leave the ticket counter.
"This is prejudice," he replied. "This is obvious discrimination. No one can argue with this."
"I am calling for a boycott of US Airways because I'm not going to stay silent," said Shahin, who is Jordanian. "I came to this country to enjoy justice and freedom."
US Airways said in a statement that it was aware of the situation and is conducting its own investigation. "We are always concerned when passengers are inconvenienced and especially concerned when a situation occurs that causes customers to feel their dignity was compromised," the statement said. "We do not tolerate discrimination of any kind and will continue to exhaust our internal investigation until we know the facts of this case and can provide answers for the employees and customers involved in this incident."
Later this morning the scholars were able fly standby on an 11:15 a.m. Northwest Airlines flight.
Pat Hogan, spokesman for the Metropolitan Airports Commission, said that witnesses to Monday's events told police that before the flight that besides praying, the imams were spouting anti-American rhetoric, talking about the war in Iraq and Saddam Hussein.
One of the imams was heard saying that he would do whatever is necessary to fulfill his commitment to the Qur'an, witnesses told police, Hogan said. Other witnesses said some of the imams were repeating "Allah, Allah," he said.
And a couple of the imams asked for seat-belt extensions, even though it did not appear they needed them, Hogan said.
All of this made passengers, the attendants and the pilot uncomfortable, Hogan said. As a result, the pilot called police to have the imams escorted from plane.
Airlines have the right not to allow passengers on a plane, Hogan said.
"It's up to the airline," he said. "From an airport standpoint we're out of it, once it was determined no crime occurred."
The imams were questioned by U.S. Marshals, the FBI and Secret Service and they were handcuffed, which is standard procedure, Hogan said.
"There are different interpretations about what was going on," he said.
Shahin said the imams asked for two seat-belt extensions because "a couple of us have big fat bellies."
Marwan Sadeddin, another of the imams said, "What bothers me the most is these false statements and lies that we refused to leave when we were asked. That we were shouting 'Allah, Allah.' This never happened."
Shahin said Tuesday that three members of the group prayed in the terminal before the six boarded the plane on Monday. They entered individually, except for one member who is blind and needed to be guided, Shahin said. Once on the plane, the six did not sit together, he said.
"We did nothing" on the plane, Shahin said.
The six were among passengers who boarded Flight 300, bound for Phoenix, around 6:30 p.m. Monday, airport spokesman Pat Hogan said.
Police were called after the captain and airport security workers asked the men to leave the plane and the men refused, Rader said.
Shahin said no one asked the six to leave, but when police arrived, the group complied.
Of the six Muslim scholars, five of them were from the Phoenix-Tempe area, while one was from Bakersfield, Calif., Shahin said.
The Council on American-Islamic Relations planned to file a complaint, said CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper.
"Because, unfortunately, this is a growing problem of singling out Muslims or people perceived to be Muslims at airports, and it's one that we've been addressing for some time," Hooper said.
Hooper said the meeting drew about 150 imams from all over the country, and that those attending included U.S. Rep.-elect Keith Ellison, D-Minneapolis, who just became the first Muslim elected to Congress. Shahin said they went as far as notifying police and the FBI about their meeting in advance.
Shahin expressed frustration that — despite extensive efforts by him and other Muslim leaders since even before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks — so many Americans know so little about Islam.
"If up to now they don't know about prayers, this is a real problem," he said.
Shahin said the group spent the night at the Minneapolis area home of a local imam and was waiting for a phone call Tuesday from US Airways. Hooper said US Airways refused to put the men on another flight. The other passengers on the flight, which was carrying 141 passengers and five crew members, were re-screened for boarding, Rader said. The plane took off about three hours after the men were removed from the flight.
 
I am a white Muslim male. on my next flight i will pull out the Quran and read it. I will also pray. If anybody pulls me out im suing them, seriously.

maybe nobody will care cause im white? we'll see....
 
I think that they should have been more sensitive to the environment they were in, being that planes were used by Islamic Jehadis to kill 3000 people.

:yeahthat:

F***in AMEN!!

I am glad someone just said it, saves me the trouble!
 
Well what most americans need to know is that Jehadis wear a red wrap around their head to symbolize their death and sacrifice.

Like I mentioned we have about five muslims at my job. Islam means to sumbit. When they pray thery are all nealing not standing so not sure what was up with the standing.

But, I really think that if all three had just bowed their heads and either said their prayers aloud. Or even in their head together in unison the end result would have been the same. Muslims in our society,world but definately on a western airline are so scrutinized and demonized due to 9/11.

If they had all three been just talking in their native language at altitude someone would have complained to the F/A that they maybe were talking about ways to take over the plane!

Sad...:rolleyes:
 
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