Holding Text Thoughts..

[meritflyer]

Ha!! Ha!!

 

[meritflyer]

so you guys tie on this one.

I demand a re-count!

 

[SteveC]

Well, you obviously didnt do your research before you popped off. See tgrayson's post.

BOO YAH!

Hmmmph.

I did my research. I knew the answer before he posted it, because my link had that diagram, along with all of the dimensions for all of the holding pattern options based on all the different variables that come into play when they design 'em. You quoted an airline pilot who gave two dimensions that sorta fit.

With that as the background, let's go back to my question. I'll even make it easy for you, it's the one that says "Which source, yours or mine, do you think is more accurate?" Now if you think that was me "popping off" at you, well, <shrug> whatever. I was careful to word my question the way I did for a reason, and I don't think it was an incorrect question, nor where the implications inherent in it. If you're interested I'll even explain the implications for you.

 

[SteveC]

A controller may also be in just the right mood to file a pilot deviation. I believe there was a few instances of this. I can try to find a reference.

Doesn't sound right to me. Did you find any references?

Yup. John and Martha King, Instrument Rating course.

I don't have access. Can you be any more specific? What did they say and how did they say it?

Nope, I cant be more specific. The AIM isnt regulatory in nature until there is an accident or some type of unsafe action. Which method does the AIM endorse? The odd Schiff method or the standard?

I suggest you buy or borrow the King DVD. Plus, Martha is hot.

Look, I am in (general) agreement with you on the "which way is the 'right' way" question. The purpose of this line of questioning is that I have not heard of pilots getting violated for doing incorrect holding pattern entries. You said (in that first quoted post) that you thought they had been. Thus this series of Q & A's.

Are we back on the same page?

My question: what did J&M King say about pilots getting turned in for violation by ATC for entering a holding pattern wrong?

 

[meritflyer]

No worries. I am just messing with you.

John was talking about holding entry and discusses "proper" procedures and even though there are no "regulations" per say. He says that while you can enter the hold any way you want, a controller in the wrong mood may see such an entry as a deviation. Upholdable? Who knows. Improper? In my book, absolutely.

 

[SteveC]

No worries. I am just messing with you.

Sorry dude....I'm married. Maybe you can give Max a call.













irate:

 

[tgrayson]

a controller in the wrong mood may see such an entry as a deviation. Upholdable? Who knows. Improper? In my book, absolutely.

1) Controllers don't have any idea of proper holding pattern entries, and

2) They don't care, as long as you stay in the airspace assigned to you.

I would be *extremely* surprised if you can locate a violation due to an improper entry, without some other extenuating condition.