3585 Question

C150J

C150J

Well-Known Member
Hi guys!

Have a question concerning exemption 3585.

- 2 facility airport
- ILS, with 3585 applied = lower than the VOR
- VOR, with 3585 applied

Say your TAF is conditionally forecasting a ceiling allowing for the ILS ONLY, BUT THERE IS A STRONG TAILWIND for that approach, forcing you to utilize the VOR in real life. Can you still use the 3585 exemption? In other words, does 3585 have to take into account suitable runway usage or just any procedure on that field?

Thanks!!!!!!
J.
 
We are required to have forecast winds within limits for the arrival, but gusts are not controlling for dispatch. In your scenario, we would not use the ILS for consideration.

Interestingly, I do not find that listed under the ops specs, but is in the FOM. I am not sure if there is a reg reference for that or not, but it does seem to be common sense.
 
Where I am TAF is not considered for the exemption, however *most* captains will look at it. Dispatch however, won't.
 
If the tailwind on the ILS exceeds your maximum tailwind component then it is not a suitable approach. The regulation states that you must have two different and suitable approaches in order to use the two approach method. So just add 400-1 to the VOR.
 
J....
Ahhh INDOC! 3585 is the hardest thing you'll do in indoc. promise! :) The runway has to be suitable. In other words if the wind is 180@12 you can't use approaches/navaids to 36 because our max. t/w component is 10 kts which would make this runway "unsuitable." Do those worksheets that are in the new hire folder, and re-do them the night before the exam. I'd also enocurage you to know the instances when the two navaid method is not the best idea.

Hope all is well.... you enjoy AWAC so far?
 
I agree with the above, just couldn't find an official definition of "suitable" when I responded. Not sure that 3585 is the toughest thing, though, what about Hi Mins exemptions or the various landing or takeoff mins, depending on fail-active, passive, etc?
 
All you guys with your fancy airline talk...what the heck is 3585? :insane:
 
JDE said:
All you guys with your fancy airline talk...what the heck is 3585? :insane:
Click to expand...

It allows you to be released to an airport you otherwise wouldn't be able to as long as the statement in the TAF is conditional (ie TEMPO, BECMG, etc). That's the best I can do off the top of my head.


I had a couple of flights in the past month where the dispatcher didn't give us an alternate, and one was REQUIRED. I'm already getting in the habit of scanning the WX to see if we need an alternate b/c I don't trust the dispatchers. :)
 
Thanks everyone!

CaptChris - Everyone is awesome. Total 180 from previous employers. Classmates are a hoot. I'll shoot you a PM sometime soon with contact info.

J.
 
JDE said:
All you guys with your fancy airline talk...what the heck is 3585? :insane:
Click to expand...


Basically under 121, you can't takeoff unless the wx at your destination is forecast to be above certain minimums (unlike part 91, where you can go and even shoot an approach even if the wx is below minimums). If the forecast has conditional language (TEMPO, etc.. etc...) below the minimums, 3585 allows you to takeoff as long as some other requirements are met.......
 
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