Logging Turbine PIC

dakovich said:
wow, thanx for all the interest in the topic. As some of you might expect i'm personally concerned about the topic because i'm looking to put some applications in for a regional job very soon. and the big thing is i don't want to look like an ass. the whole idea that, "if you're not the captain signing for the plane then you're not PIC in any way" seems like the route to go. i don't want to put turbine PIC in my log if it's not deserved/respected at the airlines i may wish to apply to. i know i can log it in some circumstances (61, 91), but i'm looking more toward my future proffesional career. so whatever the ethics or comman practices are concerning the subject is really the main cocern. thanx again everyone
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I think the important thing in all this, is to keep the time in a seperate column. If you make a 'Part 61 PIC' column in your log book and don't use it on an airline application, I don't see what their problem is. If someone does ask, all you should have to do is explain that it is legal and is often accepted in the corporate world and for insurance purposes. If they still want to argue, that is their problem.

As for the people with CL65 type ratings from some of the flight schools, they will have a limitation that they cannot serve as pilot in command on the back of their license. If you do not meet certain criteria, then you have to get either 15 or 25 hrs of operating experience under a qualified PIC 'in the seat normally occupied by the PIC' and have them sign your log book. Then you get to do an 8710 and go visit the FSDO to get the restriction removed. For any of the students getting these types, they would need the full 25hrs. Since they don't let you fly from the right seat as an FO at the airlines, this would probably be hard to accomplish.
 
For the record, Tgrayson is 100% correct. If you don't think so, you need to READ what he is writing here.

It is 100% legal to log the time as PIC.

It is also 100% stupid to do so if you plan on using that time for an interview in the future.

The two are COMPLETELY separate issues. You could do a "part 61 PIC" column if it amuses you, but what's the point?

This is the EXACT reason why the FedEx mins state explicitly:

"Note: PIC for this purpose is defined as Captain/Aircraft Commander of record, not simply the sole manipulator of the controls. "

The majors aren't dumb. I am fairly certain that nobody out my company cares what you put in your logbook, what we care is what you say you have on your application based on the criteria WE place on it. We help you by telling out what that criteria is, but you'd do well to use that for other airlines as well, as it is a lot better to be told that you were too conservative than the converse!

However, I will say again, without any qualification, Tgrayson is giving you correct information!
 
I think some of you were arguing about a very broad topic and sometimes about slightly different scenarios. The only thing I wonder about is 91 legs in a 135 operation. Case in point-

An Airnet SIC in the Baron will reposition aircraft, part 91. With no one else in the airplane, they better be logging PIC. So how different is a 91 leg in a King Air 200? You don't have to know every single darn system in the airplane!! Just be honest in the interview. You log PIC the first time you fly a light single after Private. Why not in a King Air?

If you have 10 hours in the right seat of the King Air 200 and 2 hours in the left seat, PIC, you should know the basics: what kind of engines, shaft horse power, temp and torque limits, speeds, how the gear and flaps work, how to close and check the door. Easy stuff.

But if you have 500 hours in the right seat and 50 PIC, you'd better have intimate knowledge of the airplane. If you don't, that time won't be taken seriously. There's a delicate balance between good quality SIC time and worthless, just sitting there time.
 
Who the hell are you logging it for?? If it's for an interview, you're going to be laughed out of the room. If it's just for yourself and it's in the logbook, you'll still look like a tard.
 
seagull said:
The two are COMPLETELY separate issues. You could do a "part 61 PIC" column if it amuses you, but what's the point?
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The point is, that if you are not 121, you may need those totals for insurance purposes or to upgrade to Captain, or to get a better job. If you do not keep track of this as you are doing it, it is almost impossible to remember what legs you flew, etc. at a later time. So having that extra column can come in handy.

I don't see anyone here advocating putting it on an airline application when an employer wants to know how much PIC you have. But if you are not 121, not logging the time could hurt you in the future.
 
ananoman said:
The point is, that if you are not 121, you may need those totals for insurance purposes or to upgrade to Captain, or to get a better job. If you do not keep track of this as you are doing it, it is almost impossible to remember what legs you flew, etc. at a later time. So having that extra column can come in handy.

I don't see anyone here advocating putting it on an airline application when an employer wants to know how much PIC you have. But if you are not 121, not logging the time could hurt you in the future.
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I have no argument with this at all, in fact, I agree completely and everyone can consider this a modification to what ever in the heck I wrote before (I TOLD you I had a couple of brewski's first!)
 
Whats different between the person in the left seat and right seat? Other than the fact the one has another stripe, a higher senority number, and a tiller?

If one is rated, is at the controlls, and is making the flying decisions then whats the big deal?

Its no different than when I am with my instructor. Sure he is more qualified and has more time than me, but I still get to log PIC cause I am flying.
 
E_Dawg said:
Who the hell are you logging it for?? If it's for an interview, you're going to be laughed out of the room. If it's just for yourself and it's in the logbook, you'll still look like a tard.
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tard...awesome. really though, i asked because i have no clue. 61/91 rules are pretty straight forward to me, but then you step away from the black and white of the FARs and into trying to make this flying thing a career.... there's a big difference between what the "great book" tells you you can do, and what are, in reality, acceptable practices throughout the profession. so, to use you're word, i don't want to look like a Tard.
 
Champcar said:
Whats different between the person in the left seat and right seat? Other than the fact the one has another stripe, a higher senority number, and a tiller?

If one is rated, is at the controlls, and is making the flying decisions then whats the big deal?

Its no different than when I am with my instructor. Sure he is more qualified and has more time than me, but I still get to log PIC cause I am flying.
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You're asking the difference under the regulation for logging or the difference to an interviewer?
 
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