Confronting my instructor

AngelFuree

AngelFuree

Well-Known Member
Here's my situation (keeping it short):
(I've already made a decision)

I am a CFII student. I originally had an instructor teaching me CFII. However, he got hired by a regional and couldn't finish teaching me. That's fine, congratulations to him. I had two substitute CFIs after that, one didn't have time to work with me while the next one did. Well, the one that did have time was COMPLETELY irresponsible. He cancelled two lessons on me without calling me. I had to call HIM for him to tell me that they were cancelled. I decided not to take any more • from him, and decided to not fly with him anymore. I went to complain to the guy in charge of assigning instructors look ing for a permanent instructor. Ok, well after the weekend passed, I got the new instructor. I didn't realize this instructor was a complete new-hire. The first lessons went well because it was just reviewing information from the instrument course. However, getting into the portion where I have to teach showed his lack of experience.

My instructor has never taught any Instrument Rating students before yet he's teaching me CFII. The school is taking advantage of the lack of regulation permitting and CFIIs from teaching non-initial instructor students, and since I have my CFI, then there is no hour minimums for my instructor to teach me. The whole 200 hour dual given requirement (and the other req's) doesn't apply to him since I'm not an initial instructor student.
The first lessons went well, and as such, I decided to continue w/ him for a couple of more lessons. My instructor is very knowledgable, he knows his stuff really well. What's missing is his experience teaching instrument students. He's never taught an instrument student, so there's no way he can share experience with me if he's never dealt w/ an instrument student. All he can do is discuss knowledge, but there's no hands-on experience from his part.
What really did it for me was today's briefing. I felt rushed, and felt his anxiety to get out of that briefing room. I don't want to sound cocky at all (I promise I'm not), but I feel that I'm not the boring type of student/instructor student. My instructor this summer for CFI, on numerous ocassions had complimented me on different aspects of my teaching, and he liked how I wasn't boring like some of his other students, he had mentioned. Good voice dynamics, etc. He enjoyed doing briefings with me and I saw it in his face how he enjoyed sitting down with me as his student. This instructor, however, shows his anxiety to just wanna leave the room and get done w/ the briefing. I feel he's the time-builder-only type of instructor, and that is certainly not conducive to productive training. I was so disconcentrated today by his pen tapping and looking at the clock that I just couldn't teach like I always do. I asked him if he was ok. He asked friendly, "why do you ask?" and I told him I could see his anxiety. He said, "oooh no, I'm not anxious at all! Let's keep going" So I continued, but I couldn't concentrate on the lesson anymore. I was more concentrated on his boredom.

So that really did it for me, and I decided to take a choice and do one more lesson w/ him (tomorrow) and find someone else.

The advice I'm looking from you guys is on how I should approach him. I don't want to make him feel bad 'cause he's certainly a really nice guy, but it's not the type of instructor I'm looking for...

I will also go tomorrow to talk w/ the Chief Pilot here and discuss my situation with him. The Chief Pilot is REALLY nice and understanding, so I'm sure he might be able to help. He's not in charge of assigning instructors, but I want him to know of my dissatisfaction with the school's choice to give me a newly-hired instructor that probably has less than 50 dual given. It's irresponsible, I feel. I'm not gonna go complain to him 'cause it's not his fault, but as the customer and student, I need to let him know aware of my issues and how my money is going into something that isn't productive.

I realize there's no nice/good way of delivering the news to my instructor, but I want to do it in the least of bad ways.

Any ideas?

Shiiiiit, I said it was gonna be short, but it was long, sorry, and thanks a lot to all that read it!
 
I was my CFII's first instrument student and I passed my ride with no problems.....If your styles do not mesh then it is ebst you move on. Nothing wrong at all. Just tell him what you have told us and move on. It's you money....
 
DE727UPS said:
I assume you are at UND. That would make an comments I have completely irrelevent. Good luck...
Click to expand...
I am, but no worries, feel free to share your thoughts. If it doesn't help me, I'm sure it will help someone else in a similar situation. Thanks.
 
JEP said:
I was my CFII's first instrument student and I passed my ride with no problems.....If your styles do not mesh then it is ebst you move on. Nothing wrong at all. Just tell him what you have told us and move on. It's you money....
Click to expand...
Hmm kinda confused from your reply, but I'm my CFII's first instrument student and it's for CFII...not Instrument. I'm doing CFII, not instrument, and he's never taught an instrument student before. Sorry, if I confused you from my long post.
 
Again, I'm not asking for guidance in terms of keeping him or not. I already made my decision (like I mentioned in the beginning of the post) that I will move on (lol, sounds like a relationship). I just don't want to be so blunt about it. (damnit, it's sounding like a relationship, breaking up with someone hahaha)

I'm looking for effective communication :D
 
AngelFuree said:
Hmm kinda confused from your reply, but I'm my CFII's first instrument student and it's for CFII...not Instrument. I'm doing CFII, not instrument, and he's never taught an instrument student before. Sorry, if I confused you from my long post.
Click to expand...


No confusion at all. I read it fully. That is odd that he is teaching the CFII and yet he has never had an instrument student. There will always be 'the first time' for each CFI. That being said, if you are uncomfortable with him, then change instructors and give the reasons you gave us. Again, it is your money....
 
Part of the problem in this situation is the policy of "assigning" instructors to students. I realize it's policy in some organizations and it usually works, but in your case, your a new instructor, with a new instructor. That just isn't right...
 
AngelFuree said:
Any ideas?
Click to expand...

I'm very impressed that you actually want to learn something. Most -II students that I see are looking for the person who will get them through the rating with the minimum number of flight hours. After all, the rating only requires a couple of approaches shot from the right seat, right? (So they think.):rolleyes: They often do seek out brand-new -II's, with the expectation that they won't charge them and will know what's on the checkride.
 
AngelFuree said:
Here's my situation (keeping it short):
(I've already made a decision)

I am a CFII student. I originally had an instructor teaching me CFII. However, he got hired by a regional and couldn't finish teaching me. That's fine, congratulations to him. I had two substitute CFIs after that, one didn't have time to work with me while the next one did. Well, the one that did have time was COMPLETELY irresponsible. He cancelled two lessons on me without calling me. I had to call HIM for him to tell me that they were cancelled. I decided not to take any more • from him, and decided to not fly with him anymore. I went to complain to the guy in charge of assigning instructors look ing for a permanent instructor. Ok, well after the weekend passed, I got the new instructor. I didn't realize this instructor was a complete new-hire. The first lessons went well because it was just reviewing information from the instrument course. However, getting into the portion where I have to teach showed his lack of experience.

My instructor has never taught any Instrument Rating students before yet he's teaching me CFII. The school is taking advantage of the lack of regulation permitting and CFIIs from teaching non-initial instructor students, and since I have my CFI, then there is no hour minimums for my instructor to teach me. The whole 200 hour dual given requirement (and the other req's) doesn't apply to him since I'm not an initial instructor student.
The first lessons went well, and as such, I decided to continue w/ him for a couple of more lessons. My instructor is very knowledgable, he knows his stuff really well. What's missing is his experience teaching instrument students. He's never taught an instrument student, so there's no way he can share experience with me if he's never dealt w/ an instrument student. All he can do is discuss knowledge, but there's no hands-on experience from his part.
What really did it for me was today's briefing. I felt rushed, and felt his anxiety to get out of that briefing room. I don't want to sound cocky at all (I promise I'm not), but I feel that I'm not the boring type of student/instructor student. My instructor this summer for CFI, on numerous ocassions had complimented me on different aspects of my teaching, and he liked how I wasn't boring like some of his other students, he had mentioned. Good voice dynamics, etc. He enjoyed doing briefings with me and I saw it in his face how he enjoyed sitting down with me as his student. This instructor, however, shows his anxiety to just wanna leave the room and get done w/ the briefing. I feel he's the time-builder-only type of instructor, and that is certainly not conducive to productive training. I was so disconcentrated today by his pen tapping and looking at the clock that I just couldn't teach like I always do. I asked him if he was ok. He asked friendly, "why do you ask?" and I told him I could see his anxiety. He said, "oooh no, I'm not anxious at all! Let's keep going" So I continued, but I couldn't concentrate on the lesson anymore. I was more concentrated on his boredom.

So that really did it for me, and I decided to take a choice and do one more lesson w/ him (tomorrow) and find someone else.

The advice I'm looking from you guys is on how I should approach him. I don't want to make him feel bad 'cause he's certainly a really nice guy, but it's not the type of instructor I'm looking for...

I will also go tomorrow to talk w/ the Chief Pilot here and discuss my situation with him. The Chief Pilot is REALLY nice and understanding, so I'm sure he might be able to help. He's not in charge of assigning instructors, but I want him to know of my dissatisfaction with the school's choice to give me a newly-hired instructor that probably has less than 50 dual given. It's irresponsible, I feel. I'm not gonna go complain to him 'cause it's not his fault, but as the customer and student, I need to let him know aware of my issues and how my money is going into something that isn't productive.

I realize there's no nice/good way of delivering the news to my instructor, but I want to do it in the least of bad ways.

Any ideas?

Shiiiiit, I said it was gonna be short, but it was long, sorry, and thanks a lot to all that read it!
Click to expand...

Take it up with the Chief pilot. Request another instructor. For CFII, I would request a check airmen if you have one. You want someone experienced...

Remember, you are the customer...

The instructor that cancelled on you twice without notice should be canned if he hasn't been already...

ILS
 
CLR4ILS said:
Take it up with the Chief pilot. Request another instructor. For CFII, I would request a check airmen if you have one. You want someone experienced...

Remember, you are the customer...

The instructor that cancelled on you twice without notice should be canned if he hasn't been already...

ILS
Click to expand...

So should the student get canned when they cancel on you twice?
 
CLR4ILS said:
Take it up with the Chief pilot. Request another instructor. For CFII, I would request a check airmen if you have one. You want someone experienced...

Remember, you are the customer...

The instructor that cancelled on you twice without notice should be canned if he hasn't been already...

ILS
Click to expand...
Thank you. Indeed. Everyone that knows me knows of my "customer-first" mentality and, as such, value every single minute of training because daddy isn't paying for it. I need to have quality instruction because I'm practically feeding them. I already complained about the other instructor, but I'm sure they won't do anything. After all, "oooooh yeah....he's been here for a while."
 
stuckingfk said:
So should the student get canned when they cancel on you twice?
Click to expand...
Do you realize what the situation is, Luke? It's not about an instructor cancelling on the student, or the student cancelling on the instructor. It is the lack of communication that is absolutely unacceptable. There is no way around it. Irresponsibility is the problem at hand. I was your student for maybe four lessons...if you would have cancelled on me, I wouldn't had criticized you because you let me know. Remember, you were honest with me. You dropped me as your student for the sole reason of not having enough time to fly with me (and you might have cancelled a lesson with me) but you NOTIFIED me, and I saw no problem with that. Let's keep this clear and simple. You were/are a busy instructor, but you were never irresponsible. Do you agree?
 
stuckingfk said:
So should the student get canned when they cancel on you twice?
Click to expand...

Do you remember the definition of professionalism from when you became an instructor. If he worked for me, down the road.

The student gets charged $50.00 an hour for no shows.... Why should he be exempt?

ILS
 
AngelFuree said:
Do you realize what the situation is, Luke? It's not about an instructor cancelling on the student, or the student cancelling on the instructor. It is the lack of communication that is absolutely unacceptable. There is no way around it. Irresponsibility is the problem at hand. I was your student for maybe four lessons...if you would have cancelled on me, I wouldn't had criticized you because you let me know. Remember, you were honest with me. You dropped me as your student for the sole reason of not having enough time to fly with me (and you might have cancelled a lesson with me) but you NOTIFIED me, and I saw no problem with that. Let's keep this clear and simple. You were/are a busy instructor, but you were never irresponsible. Do you agree?
Click to expand...

I was refering to ILS's post. Just wondering his thoughts on what should happen to a student who constantly no shows (cause obviously the no show charge isn't working).

As for your problems, they're legit. I agree it is unprofessional if he doesn't let you know. Take it up with Jeremy. He's definitely a reasonable and professional guy.

Btw, what airplane are you doing CFII in?
 
stuckingfk said:
I was refering to ILS's post. Just wondering his thoughts on what should happen to a student who constantly no shows (cause obviously the no show charge isn't working).

As for your problems, they're legit. I agree it is unprofessional if he doesn't let you know. Take it up with Jeremy. He's definitely a reasonable and professional guy.

Btw, what airplane are you doing CFII in?
Click to expand...

I wasn't trying to be harsh with the response, just straight up forward and honest.

If the student consistantly no shows the Cheif should be having a sit down with him. I think you and I both know that if that is the students mentality, he won't make it very far. He/she is probably flying on daddy's credit card.

As for us instructors, the student is the one paying our bills. They are the customer and should be treated accordingly, good or bad...

ILS
 
im going to give Angel my power of attorney. thus, he can do the bitching for me when things need to get done. :-D
 
I think I would be honest with the instructor, say something like "I enjoyed flying with you, you definately know your stuff, but I think UND was unfair to both of us by putting us together." I'm not a CFI for UND, but if I was a newhire and they gave me a CFII student, I know I would feel a tad uncomfortable about it, so I would guess that he does too. You gotta do what you gotta do, you're paying good money to be here, UND should really step up and give you what you need.
 
just tell him that you want someone more experienced to teach you how to be a CFII...that's it.....he may feel bad, etc. etc., but as the others have said, it's your money.......in the end, you'll learn more if both of you are comfortable with the environment. If you're spending your time trying to find ways to make yourself think this instructor is a good one, then you're not learning anything.
 
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